Robert Jastrow

[Jorge]

This is primarily for you Materialists.

I recently came across a short (a few minutes long) intro-video featuring Robert Jastrow (died 2008).

https://thejohn1010project.com/god-a...stronomer.html

Note during this short video how many times Jastrow alludes to "I cannot believe" ... "I cannot accept".

As I have been saying from day one here at TWeb, science is merely window dressing - the crux of the matter is religious and this is true for everyone. You can call yourself Agnostic, Atheist, Humanist, New Ager or whatever else suits your fancy. The fact of the matter is that you have BELIEFS - religious beliefs, empirically unprovable - and those beliefs govern essentially every area of your life ... they are your religion. You may never admit that or accept it but there you have it - read 'em and weep.

So very sad that Jastrow recognized that he was "in a hopeless bind" and, far worse than that, he "chooses to stay there"! Well, since his death in 2008 he has known that he was dead wrong. Eternity is a long time.

Jorge

[Roy]

This is primarily for you Materialists.
...
Well, since his death in 2008 he has known that he was dead wrong.

Evidence?

[JimL]

This is primarily for you Materialists.

I recently came across a short (a few minutes long) intro-video featuring Robert Jastrow (died 2008).

https://thejohn1010project.com/god-a...stronomer.html

Note during this short video how many times Jastrow alludes to "I cannot believe" ... "I cannot accept".

As I have been saying from day one here at TWeb, science is merely window dressing - the crux of the matter is religious and this is true for everyone. You can call yourself Agnostic, Atheist, Humanist, New Ager or whatever else suits your fancy. The fact of the matter is that you have BELIEFS - religious beliefs, empirically unprovable - and those beliefs govern essentially every area of your life ... they are your religion. You may never admit that or accept it but there you have it - read 'em and weep.

So very sad that Jastrow recognized that he was "in a hopeless bind" and, far worse than that, he "chooses to stay there"! Well, since his death in 2008 he has known that he was dead wrong. Eternity is a long time.

Jorge

Of course we all have beliefs, it's just that there is no evidence of the supernatural. That's a completely made up category.

[Yttrium]

As I have been saying from day one here at TWeb, science is merely window dressing - the crux of the matter is religious and this is true for everyone. You can call yourself Agnostic, Atheist, Humanist, New Ager or whatever else suits your fancy. The fact of the matter is that you have BELIEFS - religious beliefs, empirically unprovable - and those beliefs govern essentially every area of your life ... they are your religion. You may never admit that or accept it but there you have it - read 'em and weep.

Is that so. Well, it's certainly true that I don't religiously believe that I have no religious beliefs, so perhaps there are religious beliefs that I haven't realized that I have, despite currently being unaware of having any.

I'm not sure how you can conclude with certainty that I have a religious belief, though, unless your conclusion is itself a religious belief. But if you do know of religious beliefs that I have (despite not knowing much of anything about me) and could help me discover them, it would be quite helpful.

[Yttrium]

Of course we all have beliefs, it's just that there is no evidence of the supernatural. That's a completely made up category.

Religious-style beliefs? Beliefs that are empirically unprovable? I doubt that.

[Jorge]

Evidence?

It's called God's Word aka The Bible and it's been around for centuries.

Read God's Word and the rest is just simple logical inference. There's the evidence.

What, were you perhaps expecting for God to pop up in front of you and kick you in the groin to get your attention? That's not how it works. That would be coercive inducement which would essentially eliminate free will. You got lots to learn, kiddo.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Of course we all have beliefs, it's just that there is no evidence of the supernatural. That's a completely made up category.

"No evidence of the supernatural"? Really?

Try getting away from your recliner and watching Dancing with the Stars and you will find TONS of evidence of the supernatural. Just do a little work and open your eyes. Oh, and be 100% HONEST -- without 100% honesty you'll never see a thing even if it's right in your face.

Jorge

[Jorge]

Is that so. Well, it's certainly true that I don't religiously believe that I have no religious beliefs, so perhaps there are religious beliefs that I haven't realized that I have, despite currently being unaware of having any.

I'm not sure how you can conclude with certainty that I have a religious belief, though, unless your conclusion is itself a religious belief. But if you do know of religious beliefs that I have (despite not knowing much of anything about me) and could help me discover them, it would be quite helpful.

From other post: "Religious-style beliefs? Beliefs that are empirically unprovable? I doubt that."

It's really not hard to provide what you ask. However, while it isn't hard, it is lengthy. Kind of like counting to one billion one incremental number at a time --- it's 'very easy' but it's 'very lengthy'. What makes it lengthy is that so many things are involved.

That said, begin by asking yourself what a religious belief is or what is a religion. The sophomoric view is that a religion requires a belief in one or more "god". That is simply not true. Many recognized religions have no "god".

As soon as you realize and accept that ALL religions (ALL religious beliefs) are founded upon answers to a few fundamental questions [e.g., How did I get here? What caused the universe and all therein? Is there an afterlife? Is there an absolute moral code and, if there is, what is its source?], you will see that everyone - bar none - has a religion (religious beliefs). The only question is, what religion is it?

By the way, note that the questions that I listed are god-independent. God (or not) appears in the possible answers - not in the questions themselves. Those answers -- what a person freely chooses to believe ... what a person comes to believe - establishes the religion of that person. When enough people have 'like-minded beliefs' they formalize it and give it a name (e.g., Catholicism, Secular Humanism, etc.). This allows for variations. For example, there are many 'varieties' of Christianity, Atheism, Humanism, Buddhism, etc.

Jorge

[Yttrium]

As soon as you realize and accept that ALL religions (ALL religious beliefs) are founded upon answers to a few fundamental questions [e.g., How did I get here? What caused the universe and all therein? Is there an afterlife? Is there an absolute moral code and, if there is, what is its source?], you will see that everyone - bar none - has a religion (religious beliefs). The only question is, what religion is it?

Hmm.... Nope. Still not seeing anything. I firmly believe that I exist. I can prove that to myself straightforwardly. I'd hardly consider that to be religious in nature. Anything after that is open to investigation, as far as I'm concerned.


I suppose you believe that if someone doesn't believe in YEC, then they must have latched firmly on to something else. That's really not how it works.

[shunyadragon]

"No evidence of the supernatural"? Really?

Try getting away from your recliner and watching Dancing with the Stars and you will find TONS of evidence of the supernatural. Just do a little work and open your eyes. Oh, and be 100% HONEST -- without 100% honesty you'll never see a thing even if it's right in your face.

Jorge

Tons of evidence? You mean like the Chicago Stock Yards. By the way they tore that down.

[Roy]

Evidence?

It's called God's Word aka The Bible and it's been around for centuries.

Read God's Word and the rest is just simple logical inference. There's the evidence.

So, no evidence then.

Can this non-scientific preaching be moved somewhere where non-scientific preaching is appropriate?

[Roy]

"No evidence of the supernatural"? Really?

Try getting away from your recliner and watching Dancing with the Stars and you will find TONS of evidence of the supernatural.

That wouldn't have been the first place I looked.

I s'pose the welcher didn't actually mean what he wrote there though - which leaves us watching another gossamer elephant being catapulted into the sky.