More Unfairness From the Insane Left...

[Cow Poke]

You need to adjust the Vertical Hold.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Do NOT attempt to adjust your TV!!!!

[firstfloor]

Really FF, do you think this if fair to those girls?

I agree with you seer, I would not be happy to compete in those circumstances.

[Psychic Missile]

I'm actually surprised nobody on the left has presented that argument.

Some people do. They're called trans-exclusionary radical feminists or TERFs and believe that tranwomen are by nature anti-feminist. They're a small minority and not looked kindly upon by non-TERF liberals.

[KingsGambit]

Some people do. They're called trans-exclusionary radical feminists or TERFs and believe that tranwomen are by nature anti-feminist. They're a small minority and not looked kindly upon by non-TERF liberals.

I have a friend who identifies as a TERF. They do exist in the wild. She's personally expressed to me her fear that her daughter will be forced to share a locker room with a man, but is by all accounts an extremely liberal person.

[Terraceth]

I find it a little interesting to note that none of the liberally-inclined users here have come in to defend the decision to let the transgender student compete against the girls as is usual when someone posts an article like this.

[KingsGambit]

I find it a little interesting to note that none of the liberally-inclined users here have come in to defend the decision to let the transgender student compete against the girls as is usual when someone posts an article like this.

It seems that people who are fine with transgenderism have not united on this issue (though I've seen elsewhere that these two athletes do have some support) because this issue is not merely about one's own feelings or gender identity, but manifests itself in reality in the form of testosterone.

Even then, the supporters of transgender athletes competing as girls have an interesting argument that sports is inherently unfair because, say, tall people have a natural advantage in basketball. That is true. But we still separate kids' sports into age groups so everybody can have at least a fighting chance to compete against people with similar skills. So it is with separating boys and girls.

[Yttrium]

I'm fine with transgenderism, as long as it's accompanied by a sex change operation. (I realize that some around here consider that to be self-mutilation, but I don't.) Simply identifying as the opposite gender without making an attempt to physically adapt leads to way too many problems, as we've already noted with the just the sports and bathroom issues.

[Cow Poke]

Some people do. They're called trans-exclusionary radical feminists or TERFs and believe that tranwomen are by nature anti-feminist. They're a small minority and not looked kindly upon by non-TERF liberals.

Wow. The things one learns on Tweb.

[Psychic Missile]

I find it a little interesting to note that none of the liberally-inclined users here have come in to defend the decision to let the transgender student compete against the girls as is usual when someone posts an article like this.

I think the deciding factor should be hormone replacement therapy. It changes one's body to the point that any competitive advantage should be eliminated. However, the stigma against trans people and the possible expense or denial of HRT can put a trans person into a state of limbo, so it's reasonable for people to be upset if a transwoman who can't get HRT but understandably doesn't want to compete with men is banned from competing. Once trans people are more accepted and there are no unnecessary barriers to HRT, I think most people would be happy with that qualification.

[Sparko]

I think the deciding factor should be hormone replacement therapy. It changes one's body to the point that any competitive advantage should be eliminated. However, the stigma against trans people and the possible expense or denial of HRT can put a trans person into a state of limbo, so it's reasonable for people to be upset if a transwoman who can't get HRT but understandably doesn't want to compete with men is banned from competing. Once trans people are more accepted and there are no unnecessary barriers to HRT, I think most people would be happy with that qualification.

it isn't "replacement" since they didn't have that hormone to begin with in any real amount.

And by the time most men decide to become a woman, they have already grown to adulthood and their frame and muscles have already developed past what a female would. They would not lose this advantage, especially if they kept exercising.

[Psychic Missile]

it isn't "replacement" since they didn't have that hormone to begin with in any real amount.

And by the time most men decide to become a woman, they have already grown to adulthood and their frame and muscles have already developed past what a female would. They would not lose this advantage, especially if they kept exercising.

It replaces the hormones associated with their birth sex with those of their identified sex.

It doesn't matter what age someone is, HRT will alter their muscles to becomes like those of the sex they are transitioning into. It is true that bones will not change if HRT is done during adulthood, but isn't the most significant difference as far as sports are concerned muscles?

[Terraceth]

Even then, the supporters of transgender athletes competing as girls have an interesting argument that sports is inherently unfair because, say, tall people have a natural advantage in basketball. That is true. But we still separate kids' sports into age groups so everybody can have at least a fighting chance to compete against people with similar skills. So it is with separating boys and girls.

The problem with this argument is that if they think that physical sex is just as "inherently unfair" as someone's height, then they logically should be in favor of no longer separating males and females period when it comes to sports. Until they also advocate for that, trying to use this argument in favor of allowing Male-to-female transgenders to compete against females is wildly inconsistent.

[KingsGambit]

The problem with this argument is that if they think that physical sex is just as "inherently unfair" as someone's height, then they logically should be in favor of no longer separating males and females period when it comes to sports. Until they also advocate for that, trying to use this argument in favor of allowing Male-to-female transgenders to compete against females is wildly inconsistent.

I don't think it means this. Dividing up sports by approximate ability level isn't designed for true equality but just in an approximate manner so that everybody has a chance for a reasonably competitive game. I have no basketball ability so I'm going to be outmatched no matter who I play, but I'd still find more enjoyment playing with average non-serious players at the gym than I would playing against the Chicago Bulls.

[Terraceth]

I don't think it means this. Dividing up sports by approximate ability level isn't designed for true equality but just in an approximate manner so that everybody has a chance for a reasonably competitive game. I have no basketball ability so I'm going to be outmatched no matter who I play, but I'd still find more enjoyment playing with average non-serious players at the gym than I would playing against the Chicago Bulls.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. There are certain factors that give someone an advantage (on average, at least) in sports. For some of those things, such as height, divisions are not done. For some of them, like age, sex, and (for certain sports) weight, people are divided up.

Someone is free to argue that some of the factors that cause dividing shouldn't cause it, or ones that don't cause dividing should cause dividing. However, if someone is going to claim that transgenders get to compete against the opposite sex (or at least the male-to-female ones) rather than their own on the basis of "well, some people just have inherent advantages!" then you need to put gender into the category of "you don't divide people up over this" in order to be consistent and no longer have sports segregated by gender. I haven't seen anyone do that.

[Cow Poke]

I don't think it means this. Dividing up sports by approximate ability level isn't designed for true equality but just in an approximate manner so that everybody has a chance for a reasonably competitive game. I have no basketball ability so I'm going to be outmatched no matter who I play, but I'd still find more enjoyment playing with average non-serious players at the gym than I would playing against the Chicago Bulls.

No - you will beat me hands down.