Originally posted by Tassman
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More Unfairness From the Insane Left...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostA transsexual might be weaker as a woman than he was as a man, but he would still be stronger than a natural woman.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post“The use of estrogen supplements and testosterone blockers (or physical castration via sex reassignment) cause a decrease in muscle mass, bone density, and oxygen-carrying red blood cells. This leads to a decrease in strength, speed, and endurance”.
But I'm not sure why we're even talking about estrogen supplements and the like. Aren't liberals always saying that one's gender is whatever one decides it is regardless of biological reality? Telling a transgender that he can't compete as a woman because he hasn't subjected himself to self-mutilating medical procedures is exactly the kind of prejudice and discrimination that liberals ordinarily decry.
Originally posted by Tassmoron View PostI really couldn't care less about transgenders in sport. But let's not fool ourselves this is not about sport, it's about the anti LGBT agenda of you angry Evangelicals.
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Sophie-Hines-Cevian-Soft-580x580.jpg
main-qimg-57a3332cb350b17b898e737ae9731118.jpg
ae9c7b4231807133cb5a7f498e195ce4.jpg
So now we've both uploaded pictures...which basically proves... nothing.
Back to the actual question: Your factual basis for this claim is...?Last edited by carpedm9587; 06-22-2018, 11:37 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostRight...pictures. So...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28452[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28453[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28454[/ATTACH]
So now we've both uploaded pictures...which basically proves... nothing.
Back to the actual question: Your factual basis for this claim is...?
My point was that male athletes who continue to exercise will maintain more muscles than the average woman. They also have a bigger frame. The claim was that a male would lose his muscles when taking hormones. The photos I shared proves that claim false.
You posting photos of skinny weak men who became skinny weak women doesn't counteract that one bit.
this Guy:
Would not be a muscular woman no matter what.Last edited by Sparko; 06-22-2018, 01:19 PM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWere the men in your photos athletes as men? No.
My point was that male athletes who continue to exercise will maintain more muscles than the average woman. They also have a bigger frame. The claim was that a male would lose his muscles when taking hormones. The photos I shared proves that claim false.
You posting photos of skinny weak men who became skinny weak women doesn't counteract that one bit.
this Guy:
Would not be a muscular woman no matter what.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWere the men in your photos athletes as men? No.
My point was that male athletes who continue to exercise will maintain more muscles than the average woman. They also have a bigger frame. The claim was that a male would lose his muscles when taking hormones. The photos I shared proves that claim false.
You posting photos of skinny weak men who became skinny weak women doesn't counteract that one bit.
this Guy:
Would not be a muscular woman no matter what.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWeaker relative to the average man, perhaps, but transgender athletes are still biological men competing against biological women.
But I'm not sure why we're even talking about estrogen supplements and the like. Aren't liberals always saying that one's gender is whatever one decides it is regardless of biological reality? Telling a transgender that he can't compete as a woman because he hasn't subjected himself to self-mutilating medical procedures is exactly the kind of prejudice and discrimination that liberals ordinarily decry.
I said earlier that I really don't care. Actually, I think it would be hilarious if political correctness results in women's sports being effectively eliminated by men competing as women. The only interest I have in this topic is the way it exposes liberal hypocrisy.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Just to be clear on what I am (and have been) saying, I have no doubt that there is a biological difference between men and women. I am also clear on the role estrogen and testosterone play in building muscle mass. I am also aware that, with today's technology, a man can boost testosterone block testosterone and boost estrogen. A woman can do the reverse, muddying the biological waters. I am also reasonably sure that any group of people continually getting the message from their surrounding culture that they "can't do X" are going to have a psychological impact on their ability to do X. If it follows the usual trends, some will be crushed by it, some will be completely unaffected by it, and pretty much everything in between.
What I have been saying is that the biology has been study. I find no studies on the cultural/social influences. So any claim that these cultural/social influences have "zero impact" is simply an unsupportable claim. Any claim that men will always exceed women in sports is an unsupportable claim. We simply don't have the data. In strength-related activities, men at peak performance currently have a 30-40% gap with women. For other more endurance-related sports, the gap appears to be 10%. For skill-related sports, the gap is even narrower, if it exists at all. How all of that would shift if the cultural/social message were eliminated is an unknown.
I frankly like the concept of XX Games and X Games. Other than the meaningless disparaging adjectives commonly used (silly, stupid, etc.) and the sea of condescending emojis, does anyone have a practical, thought-out argument for why such an arrangement would not be a practical solution?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Tassmoron View PostNo, not when the use of estrogen supplements and testosterone blockers etc cause a decrease in muscle mass, bone density, and oxygen-carrying red blood cells. This leads to a decrease in strength, speed, and endurance. They have in effect, become "biological women".
And you still haven't addressed the point of why self-mutilation therapy is even a topic in this debate. It smells like a red herring to me. Tell me, are you opposed to men who identify as women competing in women's sports unless they figuratively and literally castrate themselves? Why? That's not very tolerant of you. Bad liberal.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNo, not when the use of estrogen supplements and testosterone blockers etc cause a decrease in muscle mass, bone density, and oxygen-carrying red blood cells. This leads to a decrease in strength, speed, and endurance. They have in effect, become "biological women".
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe only “prejudice and discrimination” here is yours.
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Originally posted by LeaC View PostIf you have to put quotes around "biological women", chances are you're not quoting legitimate science.
The current IOC policy for transwomen is that they have to, in summary, lower their testosterone to the low end of normal for *male* persons. This means that a biological male with naturally-occurring low testosterone could compete in the Olympics against women, with no hormone therapy required and no testing of his 'muscle mass, bone density, and oxygen-carrying red blood cells', none of which has been proven to be a side effect of HRT anyway.
The next sentence is entirely made up, by you, as no such tests have been done to compare. It's worth noting that the IOC has *no* requirements for transmen(female athletes) competing against men, because everyone knows that will never be issue. Female athletes will never be able to compete in the Olympics with men.
Almost completely agree, if only "yours" meant you, Tassman. You show prejudice and discrimination against female athletes in favor of males who don't want or can't compete with other males. They are cheaters, and should be treated as such.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostTrans women do, I believe, want to lower their testosterone levels in any event. Their purpose is to be a womanly as possible.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt was a direct quote from Joanna Harper (April 1, 2015). "Do transgender athletes have an edge? I sure don't" - cited in The Washington Post. This was posted earlier in the thread if youÂ’d been bothering to follow it.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostI donÂ’t believe so. They want to compete with women because they identify as women. I would have thought this was obvious to anyone not set on discrimination and prejudice.
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Originally posted by Tassmoron View PostThey want to compete with women because they identify as women. I would have thought this was obvious to anyone not set on discrimination and prejudice.
Will you answer this time, or will you continue to duck and dodge around your own hypocrisy?Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-24-2018, 12:28 PM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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