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Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

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  • If the thousands marching from Honduras despite the Mexican Army trying to stop them would actually use that pressure on their own government they wouldn't have to leave their country. They need to use that crowd and determination to make changes in their own government.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Looks like Trump's policy of separating families and losing their kidsactually enforcing the laws on the books hasn't acted as the deterrent he claimed it would be.
      That would be because activist judges tied his hands, rendering the laws as written unenforceable - thus removing the intended deterrent. I'm shocked, shocked I say, that removal of the deterrent has resulted in an increase in illegal immigration.

      Perhaps if you'd pay more attention to actual events, and were less interested in playing 'gotcha', you wouldn't look so foolish.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Never claimed it was.

        I'm always amused when non-Christians pretend to know what God is going to ask on judgment day.
        Oh don't get me wrong - I don't think judgement day is ever going to happen. The question was posed from the Christian worldview perspective. I am continually told how god's moral framework is "absolute" and all will be judged against it. I am told what that moral framework is and what it requires and says - and it is claimed to be unambiguous. Lying is wrong. Killing is wrong. Taking the name of god in vain is wrong. None of these are debatable (apparently).

        But apparently they can be waved, ignored, or even have behavior that contradicts them defended without consequence if it achieves the desired political policies.

        The reason that many (most?) evangelicals have lost the moral high ground is because they abandoned it - as measured by their own moral framework. They were willing to compromise their ethics to achieve a desired political/social outcome. That's not new, mind you - it's just so much more amazingly evident today, in the record-setting approval levels this vile human being has achieved among both Republicans and evangelicals - and the almost complete silence when Trump again violates simple, conventional, moral norms.

        I haven't seen a single evangelical person here, or even online in any venue, challenge Pat Robertson's comment about the murder of the journalist and the $100B trade at risk.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Oh don't get me wrong - I don't think judgement day is ever going to happen.
          Yes, I knew you were being disingenuous.

          The question was posed from the Christian worldview perspective. I am continually told how god's moral framework is "absolute" and all will be judged against it. I am told what that moral framework is and what it requires and says - and it is claimed to be unambiguous. Lying is wrong. Killing is wrong. Taking the name of god in vain is wrong. None of these are debatable (apparently).
          Except killing. Murder is wrong, killing can be argued.

          But apparently they can be waved, ignored, or even have behavior that contradicts them defended without consequence if it achieves the desired political policies.
          Who's doing that?

          The reason that many (most?) evangelicals have lost the moral high ground is because they abandoned it - as measured by their own moral framework. They were willing to compromise their ethics to achieve a desired political/social outcome. That's not new, mind you - it's just so much more amazingly evident today, in the record-setting approval levels this vile human being has achieved among both Republicans and evangelicals - and the almost complete silence when Trump again violates simple, conventional, moral norms.
          Actually, it was a delicate balancing act, wherein one party was most certainly for the murder of innocent unborn babies, and the other wasn't. They were both, to me, really bad choices, but one was less bad. That in NO WAY implies I approve of Trump's moral character, any more than allowing a firefighter to fight the fire at my home - though he was otherwise a moral reprobate - proves that I approve of his morals (or lack thereof).

          I'm sure you'd want to check his credentials first, before allowing him to save your home.

          I haven't seen a single evangelical person here, or even online in any venue, challenge Pat Robertson's comment about the murder of the journalist and the $100B trade at risk.
          Pat Robertson says some really nutty things.

          Happy?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post

            I haven't seen a single evangelical person here, or even online in any venue, challenge Pat Robertson's comment about the murder of the journalist and the $100B trade at risk.
            Maybe because this is the wrong thread? This thread is about immigration, not the journalist.



            That said, Pat Robertson is kind of an end times nut, isn't he? I don't even know what comment you are referring to. I never listen to Robertson.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Maybe because this is the wrong thread? This thread is about immigration, not the journalist.



              That said, Pat Robertson is kind of an end times nut, isn't he? I don't even know what comment you are referring to. I never listen to Robertson.
              Isn't he the Duck Dynasty guy?


              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                I'm always amused when non-Christians pretend to know what God is going to ask on judgment day.
                The fact we don't believe the Bible does not mean we do not know what it says. That is why some of us wonder at times why some of those who actually claim to believe it seemingly do not know (or care?) what it says.
                Last edited by Charles; 10-22-2018, 11:56 AM.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  The fact we don't believe the Bible does not mean we do not know what it says.
                  Nor does claiming something nutty prove that you do.

                  That is why some of us wonder at times why some of those who actually claim to believe seemingly do not know what it says.
                  You're doing that nanny thing, Charles.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Nor does claiming something nutty prove that you do.



                    You're doing that nanny thing, Charles.
                    There is no more nanny to that than your statement that
                    I'm always amused when non-Christians pretend to know what God is going to ask on judgment day.
                    I just countered the statement because it is important to note that the message of the Bible is there for all to read. The idea that Christians somehow know more would contradict some the interpretations of the Christians holding on to the idea that everything is revealed in Scripture.

                    Anyway, this is perhaps going of topic in the opinion of some readers, but in my opinion it is very much on topic when discussing the family separations which I have no problem claiming contradicts the fundamental message of Jesus on how we should treat each other.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      There is no more nanny to that than your statement that
                      I was having a conversation with a friend -- you butted in to nanny, uninvited, as you often do.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I was having a conversation with a friend -- you butted in to nanny, uninvited, as you often do.
                        Time for Chuck's car?
                        I am Punkinhead.

                        "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

                        ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ke7ejx View Post
                          Time for Chuck's car?
                          Not necessarily - he's not being overly pesty.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Not necessarily - he's not being overly pesty.
                            I am Punkinhead.

                            "I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"

                            ~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Yes, I knew you were being disingenuous.


                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Except killing. Murder is wrong, killing can be argued.
                              Very true...

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Who's doing that?
                              Many (most?) evangelicals.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Actually, it was a delicate balancing act, wherein one party was most certainly for the murder of innocent unborn babies, and the other wasn't. They were both, to me, really bad choices, but one was less bad.
                              You too need a new tune, CP. This explains the vote in 2016. It does NOT explain the broad level of continued support and acclaim, the approval ratings from Evangelicals and Republicans at record levels, and the lack of any significant public challenge of much (any?) of this man's behavior.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              That in NO WAY implies I approve of Trump's moral character, any more than allowing a firefighter to fight the fire at my home - though he was otherwise a moral reprobate - proves that I approve of his morals (or lack thereof).

                              I'm sure you'd want to check his credentials first, before allowing him to save your home.
                              Apples and oranges, CP. If I go into a store and get service from a serial rapist, and I do not KNOW he is a serial rapist - I am not morally culpable. If I KNOW he is a serial rapist and still patronize his business, and laud his good service, then I am making myself morally culpable.

                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Pat Robertson says some really nutty things.

                              Happy?
                              So can I assume you do NOT think we should be ignoring the death of this man because it puts at risk $100B dollars in trade?
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Maybe because this is the wrong thread? This thread is about immigration, not the journalist.

                                That said, Pat Robertson is kind of an end times nut, isn't he? I don't even know what comment you are referring to. I never listen to Robertson.
                                My apologies if my observation derailed the thread. I'll move on...
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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