Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[carpedm9587]

I don't know why I bother... everything gets thrown into the laundry, put on maximum spin, and out comes whatever narrative you want regardless of the facts. Maybe I should just start ironically agreeing with everything you say and spare myself the aggravation.

Well - at least you're consistent. When someone points out the errors in your posts, you regularly dismiss it as "spin" and throw up your hands.

Not much of an argument. If anything I said was untrue...feel free to provide the evidence that it is. I linked you to my sources.

[Starlight]

Big surprise. Democrats don't give a crap about the kids, and they're not about to let a common sense compromise stand in the way of their anti-Trump agenda. They're hoping to ride this manufactured crisis all the way into November.

The Republicans have basically using the children as political hostages, demanding the Dems give them everything they want (border wall funding etc) in exchange for stopping their inhumane breaking up of families and imprisoning of children. The Republicans did the same thing with the Dreamers last year, taking their rights and status hostage and demanding the Democrats agree to all the Republican demands in exchange for them releasing the political hostages.

The Republicans are just bad people.

For once Schumer seems to have discovered he actually has a spine (sadly that is unusual for him), and is standing up to the Republican sociopathic evil.

[KingsGambit]

For once Schumer seems to have discovered he actually has a spine (sadly that is unusual for him), and is standing up to the Republican sociopathic evil.

Schumer's statement gave the rationale that he wanted to tie the issue to Trump. That seems pretty clearly to say that he cares more about continuing to reap political capital from this issue than to actually solve the problem. Who's the sociopath here?

[carpedm9587]

Schumer's statement gave the rationale that he wanted to tie the issue to Trump. That seems pretty clearly to say that he cares more about continuing to reap political capital from this issue than to actually solve the problem. Who's the sociopath here?

Or it says he wants to counter Trump's attempts to tie it to the Democrats...

[carpedm9587]

Big surprise. Democrats don't give a crap about the kids, and they're not about to let a common sense compromise stand in the way of their anti-Trump agenda. They're hoping to ride this manufactured crisis all the way into November.

Right. Trump institutes a policy of separating kids from parents and magically it's the "Democrats" who don't care about kids , and the Dems that "manufactured" the crisis.

Come on, MM. Give your arguments a little thought...?

[Starlight]

Schumer's statement gave the rationale that he wanted to tie the issue to Trump. That seems pretty clearly to say that he cares more about continuing to reap political capital from this issue than to actually solve the problem. Who's the sociopath here?

The Trump administration has chosen to separate families and imprison children.

They are saying to Schumer "pass the immigration laws we'll write for you, or we'll keep being nasty to these children".

Schumer's response is "Stop being nasty to the children. I'm not going to let you write laws for me to agree to. But, insofar as you choose to be nasty to families and children, that is 100% your doing."

It's like ISIS putting the gun to the head of a hostage and saying "the USA better agree to all my demands, and not 'make' me kill these hostages". Everyone knows the USA is not 'making' them do it. Likewise the Democrats are not 'making' the Republicans split up families and imprison children. Saying that the Dems could stop it by agreeing to all the Republicans' unreasonable demands is no more relevant than observing that the US could have saved the hostages by giving into ISIS.

Who's the sociopath here?

The Republican scum. They are the lowest of the low, the most evil of the evil. I see they're also running away form the UN human rights council with their tail between their legs because the UN told them off for this. Good riddance.

[KingsGambit]

It's like ISIS putting the gun to the head of a hostage and saying "the USA better agree to all my demands, and not 'make' me kill these hostages". Everyone knows the USA is not 'making' them do it. Likewise the Democrats are not 'making' the Republicans split up families and imprison children. Saying that the Dems could stop it by agreeing to all the Republicans' unreasonable demands is no more relevant than observing that the US could have saved the hostages by giving into ISIS.

I don't think the ISIS analogy is very strong because my reading of the bill is that it was relatively non-controversial and kicked most of the major issues down the road, keeping a narrow focus on keeping families together and expediting hearings. (It certainly did not provide funding for the border wall as one friend of mine tried to claim.) If there were some sort of poison pill in there (and maybe I've missed one), it would be a decent argument.

[Starlight]

I don't think the ISIS analogy is very strong because my reading of the bill is that it was relatively non-controversial and kicked most of the major issues down the road, keeping a narrow focus on keeping families together and expediting hearings. (It certainly did not provide funding for the border wall as one friend of mine tried to claim.) If there were some sort of poison pill in there (and maybe I've missed one), it would be a decent argument.

Schumer's statement that I read said the Republicans keep putting poison pills in the bills.

On twitter he's saying:

[The Bill's] extreme & drastically cuts immigration in ways unacceptable to the Senate & American ppl. It holds #Dreamers &kids separated frm parents hostage to cut legal immigration & enact the hard right’s agenda.
...
As everyone who has looked at this agrees, this was done by the president, not Democrats. He can fix it tomorrow if he wants to, and if he doesn’t want to, he should own up to the fact that he’s doing it.
...
.@SpeakerRyan wants to pass a massive bill that may not even pass the House & couldn’t pass Senate, @SenateGOP are supposedly eyeing a bill @realDonaldTrump wouldn’t sign even if it made it to his desk& @POTUS continues to try to use separated fams as hostages in the leg process.
...
You [Trump] - and not the law - are responsible for this family separation policy, @realDonaldTrump. GOP Senators and members of your own administration have confirmed this. You could reverse this terrible practice in a few minutes- but you refuse to lift a finger.

[Starlight]

Here's quite a good overall explanation of the situation:

I’m an immigration lawyer. Made the switch about 2 years ago after a career in which I mostly did patent and trademark litigation. I’m currently a solo practitioner in the DC area and the majority of my clients are asylum-seekers from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. I’ve tried – and even won – asylum trials in immigration court, and have interviewed literally thousands of undocumented individuals to hear their stories and evaluate the merits of their cases.

Prior to zero tolerance (I’ll just use ZT to denote going forward), a mother and 2 sons leave El Salvador because of gang violence or domestic violence. They pay a “coyote” to take them and a bunch of other folks to the US border. These are mostly people with second grade educations, and they know fuck all about US immigration law. They cross the border and are apprehended. Pretty much 100% of border crossers in 2018 are apprehended, and it’s been that way since about 2010. All the “border security” measures that have gone into effect since 2005 when GWB proposed an amnesty have increased the number of border patrol and the technology they use to patrol. Of the thousands of undocumented individuals I have interacted with, literally not a single one entered the US after 2010 and was not apprehended at or near the border. The dirty little secret of immigration policy is that the border is already secure.

If this mother and 2 children were apprehended prior to ZT, they were taken to a detention center along the border. There are many such centers in southern Texas, southern AZ and southern CA. The parents and children were not separated for any appreciable length of time. Never. Anybody who says different is misinformed. Or lying. Your mileage may vary. If the parent stated that she wanted asylum, she was given what is called a Credible Fear Interview, in which she detailed the reasons for leaving El Salvador. The purpose of the CFI is not to finally adjudicate whether to grant asylum – that is done by an immigration judge or by USCIS. If the CFI states that there is no credible fear of return to your home country, you are deported. If after the interview, it is determined that you have a credible fear of returning to your country, then you are given a Notice to Appear that is the document that begins the immigration court process. It states that you are not a US Citizen or legal permanent resident, you are not here under a visa, you are a citizen of El Salvador, and you are removeable under the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA). Asylum is a defense to removal in immigration court. An asylum-seeker files form I-589, along with as much evidence as she can obtain to support the asylum claim. The immigration judge determines whether to grant asylum or deny. Denial means removal, aka deportation. You can appeal a negative decision to the Board of Immigration Appeals, and after that to the federal appeals circuit that covers your area – 6th circuit for those in Michigan and Ohio, 4th circuit for Virginia and Maryland, 7th circuit for Illinois and Wisconsin, for example.

While in detention, the families would be kept together. ICE would determine whether to release on own recognizance or under a bond. Typically, they do not do so, and so the immigrant can ask the immigration judge to release them under bond. Bond rules in immigration court are the same as in regular court – if you are deemed a danger to the community or a flight risk, bond can be denied and you are detained throughout the pendency of your case. Rarely were parents with children denied bond altogether. They were usually released within anywhere from 2 days to 2 months. Again, when there are children, they would try and expedite their release so they’re not sitting in a detention center for months at a time.

Now, under ZT, the administration is criminally charging the parents and using that as the facade to separate the children from the parents. Obviously, if someone is arrested for suspicion of a crime, and he/she has children, that person is separated from the children. So that is how they are accomplishing the separations – by criminally indicting the parents. A first unlawful entry into the US is a misdemeanor, lesser penalty than possession of a small amount of marijuana for personal use. So no prior administration took the step of criminally prosecuting these people, and especially not for the express purpose of separating the families as a deterrent to future immigrants as the administration admits it is doing.

[Starlight]

Also, general reminder, the US is the only nation in the world not to have ratified the "United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child". That explicitly states the rights of children to stay with their parents.

Republicans are so ""pro-family"" that they can't bring themselves to acknowledge what every other country in the world agrees are the rights of children.

[Starlight]

The Associated Press is now reporting that the Trump administration is operating 3 baby-prison facilities in Texas and plans to open a 4th.

Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border to at least three “tender age” shelters in South Texas, The Associated Press has learned.

Lawyers and medical providers who have visited the Rio Grande Valley shelters described play rooms of crying preschool-age children in crisis. The government also plans to open a fourth shelter to house hundreds of young migrant children in Houston, where city leaders denounced the move Tuesday.

"Tender age" facilities... gotta admire their Orwellian terms for baby prisons.

[demi-conservative]

Also, general reminder, the US is the only nation in the world not to have ratified the "United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child". That explicitly states the rights of children to stay with their parents.

Time for BDS, Starlight!!!

[demi-conservative]

Demi voted yes, Starlight.

No more 'walk in illegally with kids, get entry clear in' nonsense of Dems. That is good!

Who knows how many kids trafficked this way, no more!!!

[demi-conservative]

Time for BDS, Starlight!!!

"US withdraws from UN Human Rights Council"

Do it, Starlight!!!!!!!!!!

[rogue06]

But it is true. (Politifact? Really? )

Don't you remember the pictures making the rounds several weeks back showing children in cages and sleeping on the floor? The left was whooping and hollering about how terrible Trump was to keep kids in those conditions... until someone pointed out that those were pictures from when Obama was in office, and the left had a collective "gulp" and started hastily deleting all the posts.

Anyway...

Source: Obama’s Immigration Agencies Separated Children From Their Families, Too

Since 2008, the United States has had a policy known as the Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP), or Lateral Repatriation. This program focuses on detaining male migrants of Mexican descent.

Here’s how it works: Once an immigrant is caught attempting to cross the border without documentation, they are detained, flown or bused across the United States and then shown the exit at another segment of the U.S.-Mexico border–thousands of miles from their original point of entry.

[...]

Sparingly used upon inception, the Obama administration drastically increased the use of ATEP in 2011, responding to a perceived increase in attempts at immigration into the United States by Mexican nationals.

[...]

Multiple stories about those family detention centers [were] written during the Obama era–just not by the mainstream media. In particular, dozens of stories about the Nogales Placement Center in Nogales, Arizona particular were written by journalists at Shadowproof, a reader-supported media outlet, alone. Journalists for Shadowproof also frequently reported on the T. Don Hutto Residential Center in Taylor, Texas. Most media declined to investigate these facilities until fairly recently.

https://lawandcrime.com/immigration/...-families-too/

© Copyright Original Source

And for the record, this is from a piece that is attempting to defend the practice under Obama while hypocritically condemning it under Trump.

There's also this little inconvenient truth:

Source: Trustworthy Source

“We had ICE in our office last week, and they told us just on the asylum issue, just on asylum, 2,000 people a week showing up at the border,” Rep. Jordan said. “Think about that, that’s 100,000 people a year and they told us that 80 percent of those people wind up not being legitimate asylum seekers.”

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ction-mandate/

© Copyright Original Source

Then, of course, there is the fact that those families who enter legally are not separated. It's only those who choose to violate our laws who face the consequences.

Photos of border detention facilities from the Obama-era, taken during 2014

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Now the MSM are falling over themselves talking about Nazi-like concentration camps but back then they really couldn't be bothered.