Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[carpedm9587]

Based on the Slate article cited in the OP, and on Charles's Amnesty International report, this is not a fact, but a lie (albeit not yet a lie by you).

Source: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/06/usa-family-separation-torture/

Amnesty International recently interviewed 17 asylum-seeking parents who were forcibly separated from their children, and all but three of them had entered the USA legally to request asylum.

“The claims of the Trump administration ring hollow. This cruel and unnecessary practice is being inflicted not only on families crossing irregularly, but also on those seeking protection at ports of entry. The majority of these families fled to the US to seek international protection from persecution and targeted violence in the Northern Triangle, where their governments are unwilling or unable to protect them,”

© Copyright Original Source

Hmm...so...are these people entering through UN sanctioned channels, or are they just walking across the border to claim asylum? If the latter, I can see how it would be hard to tell them apart from those entering illegally, at least at first. I'm not sure this makes the case that "legally entering families" are being separated.

[Mountain Man]

Right. Trump institutes a policy of separating kids from parents and magically it's the "Democrats" who don't care about kids , and the Dems that "manufactured" the crisis.

Come on, MM. Give your arguments a little thought...?

Trump didn't institute the policy, you moron. Even Obama enforced the law, at least some of the time.

I posted this earlier, an article that hypocritically attempts to defend Obama while criticizing Trump:

https://lawandcrime.com/immigration/...amilies-too-2/


Then there's the 2013 story from HuffPo begging Obama to stop separating families:

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4371244


A Democrat representative recently admitted that this "crisis" was kept quiet when Obama was in office:

https://ijr.com/2018/06/1103949-henr...migrant-obama/


And it was Obama's policies and not Trump's that forced children to sleep in literal cages, and we have the pictures and video to prove it even if the left attempted to falsely pin the blame on Trump:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...backfires.html


By all accounts, the migrant children at the border under Trump are significantly better off than homeless US citizens.

No, but go ahead and do your "the facts don't matter" two-step. All that matters is "getting" Trump, right?

[Roy]

Really? Where is that documented?

In the post that preceded the one you replied to

[Roy]

Hmm...so...are these people entering through UN sanctioned channels, or are they just walking across the border to claim asylum? If the latter, I can see how it would be hard to tell them apart from those entering illegally, at least at first. I'm not sure this makes the case that "legally entering families" are being separated.

"seeking protection at ports of entry"

[Mountain Man]

Senate Democratic Leader Charles Schumer (N.Y.) on Tuesday dismissed a legislative proposal backed by Republican leaders to keep immigrant families together at the border, arguing that President Trump could fix the problem more easily with a flick of his pen.

“There are so many obstacles to legislation and when the president can do it with his own pen, it makes no sense,” Schumer told reporters. “Legislation is not the way to go here when it’s so easy for the president to sign it.”

Anyone remember these same people complaining about Trump abusing his executive powers and getting Federal Judges to block him when he wanted to temporarily stop immigration from the middle east?

Back then it was an abuse of power for Trump to do any such thing. It was up to congress to make the laws!

But now, congress says it's too HARD to make laws! They need the President to use his pen! WAAAAAAH!

That's their plan: try to force Trump to write an executive order and then block it in the courts to keep this manufactured crisis going while accusing Trump of trying to rule like a despot. The Democrats think they've finally stumbled on a winning issue, and they're not going to give it up without a fight

[demi-conservative]

Anyone remember these same people complaining about Trump abusing his executive powers and getting Federal Judges to block him when he wanted to temporarily stop immigration from the middle east?

Back then it was an abuse of power for Trump to do any such thing. It was up to congress to make the laws!

But now, congress says it's too HARD to make laws! They need the President to use his pen! WAAAAAAH!

Trump should do firing of Mueller now, libtards will cos they don't know what to more about.

[carpedm9587]

"seeking protection at ports of entry"

If they are actually approaching ports of entry and seeking protection, and they are still being separated, that's not good. There is no basis for imprisonment or arrest.

[Sparko]

The Associated Press is now reporting that the Trump administration is operating 3 baby-prison facilities in Texas and plans to open a 4th.

Trump administration officials have been sending babies and other young children forcibly separated from their parents at the U.S.-Mexico border to at least three “tender age” shelters in South Texas, The Associated Press has learned.

Lawyers and medical providers who have visited the Rio Grande Valley shelters described play rooms of crying preschool-age children in crisis. The government also plans to open a fourth shelter to house hundreds of young migrant children in Houston, where city leaders denounced the move Tuesday.

"Tender age" facilities... gotta admire their Orwellian terms for baby prisons.

IPI179731crock.jpg

[Sparko]

Publishing pictures from a period when a tide of unaccompanied children temporarily overwhelmed immigration facilities as if they are equivalent to explicit, intentional separation of families is not just disingenuous, it is dishonest and a flat out lie. You should know better, Rogue.

I know each party wants to show itself in the best possible light and undermine the opposition - but such bald-faced lies are not worthy of a person that calls themselves "Christian." Are we really at a point where politics precedes ethics?

It hasn't changed. There are still overwhelming number of border crossings. Remember the caravan that was just in the news?

And the policies are the SAME! It is the LAW!! They don't just make up what they do on the fly. Nothing has changed, despite you trying your best to spin it, Carp (and Tassman)

[Littlejoe]

You people in non-bordering states Like Carp and non-bordering countries such as England, New Zealand and Australia, live in a fantasy world with no idea of the impact these illegals cause on our states. Homes are burglarized by illegal immigrants as they come in because usually, they are broke and hungry. They steal money, jewelry, and food. They take jobs, and send the money back to their families. SOMETHING HAS to be done to slow this down. If putting them in jail and therefore separating them from their kids from them when they get caught helps, then so be it. It's really easy to sit in the cheap seats and boo, it's a lot harder when you have to live with it daily.

These illegals are also often exploited shamelessly. I know there was a man caught in the Dallas area who was using illegals in his landscape business. He paid them minimum wage but would work them 80+ hours a week but never paid time and a half for OT, only straight time. THEN, he bought used mobile homes and forced all his workers to rent from him...he would put 8 to a trailer and charge them $300/month each (taken out of their pay). No electricity or running water. My co-worker here served on the jury of the owner of the company. (He was convicted and sentenced to prison!)

[Cow Poke]

You people in non-bordering states Like Carp and non-bordering countries such as England, New Zealand and Australia, live in a fantasy world with no idea of the impact these illegals cause on our states. Homes are burglarized by illegal immigrants as they come in because usually, they are broke and hungry. They steal money, jewelry, and food. They take jobs, and send the money back to their families. SOMETHING HAS to be done to slow this down. If putting them in jail and therefore separating them from their kids from them when they get caught helps, then so be it. It's really easy to sit in the cheap seats and boo, it's a lot harder when you have to live with it daily.

These illegals are also often exploited shamelessly. I know there was a man caught in the Dallas area who was using illegals in his landscape business. He paid them minimum wage but would work them 80+ hours a week but never paid time and a half for OT, only straight time. THEN, he bought used mobile homes and forced all his workers to rent from him...he would put 8 to a trailer and charge them $300/month each (taken out of their pay). No electricity or running water. My co-worker here served on the jury of the owner of the company. (He was convicted and sentenced to prison!)

I'm having a hard time weighing in on this because I know I have my own biases, having been the facilities manager for a gas compression company that had a LOT of facilities along the border. The media hypes this up, and people are swallowing this whole hog. There is so much more to this than the drama in the media, and there are people here who have no idea what's really going on who are getting sucked into this.

BOTH sides are playing political football with people's lives. It makes me sick.

[lilpixieofterror]

Have you read the article? Their "proof" that these sites lean left is that they gave Trump the "pants on fire" rating more frequently than Clinton. Not exactly proof, since it is fairly evident that Trump lies on a regular basis. Capital Research, it turns out, is a conservative think tank, so it is not particularly surprising that they would take issue with fact-checkers when their own party is more commonly held to account.

I have chased enough of the "facts" behind the fact-checker posts to have a fairly high confidence-level in their accuracy.

One of the worst things, IMO, that Trump has done as president is to take the right-wing meme of "you can't trust the media" mainstream. We live in a democracy. The fourth estate is the watchdog of that democracy, giving us an eye into what our government is doing. None of us has the time to do that digging. They should be called into account when they are found to have abused their role, and most are honestly self-correcting when they make an error. Time after time, news outlets have fired people, disciplined people, and published retractions when they jumped too quickly on a story and got it wrong. (Well, most news outlets. There are several that simply do not do that, or do it grudgingly).

But each an every error is jumped on as if it's part of a global conspiracy against the right. When you undermine the watchdog of democracy, you undermine democracy itself. You leave us with only one source of news about the activities of the government: the government itself. That is a nasty place to be.

If you would have read the article you would have noticed their issue with the truth-o-meter has no scientific bases and is mostly opinion. You’d also notice all the examples they provided of biasness in which the ‘fact checkers’ argue matters of opinion as fact and turn clear exaggerations and pretend it’s absolute. There’s changing up quotes into something new. Of course there’s also the issue of where Clinton’s web of lies about her e mail was treated as one lie vs several lies. Sorry, but your fact checkers pretend to be impartial, but are just a bunch of bias hacks pretending to be impartial journist.

[demi-conservative]

Establishment Dems want votes, Reps want cheap workers to abuse.

At same time, human trafficking, drugs, MS13 coming through.

SOMETHING HAS to be done to slow this down.

[carpedm9587]

If you would have read the article you would have noticed their issue with the truth-o-meter has no scientific bases and is mostly opinion.

Yes, Pix, when you are rating the honesty of a claim, it's not a matter for science. You look at the words, you look at the things they refer to, you note the degree to which the claim aligns to the truth and the degree to which it attempts to "fudge" and you subjectively apply a rating. To assess the rating, you read the article and (hopefully) spot-check the claims.

You’d also notice all the examples they provided of biasness in which the ‘fact checkers’ argue matters of opinion as fact and turn clear exaggerations and pretend it’s absolute.

When an opinion is about a "fact," it can be objectively assessed. It may be Trump's "opinion" that he won by the "greatest landslide in the history of the presidency," but that "opinion" does not pass scrutiny, since his electoral win places him 46th out of 58 elections. So..."pants on fire." Trump has made MANY such claims, none of which pass the sniff test for "truth."

There’s changing up quotes into something new. Of course there’s also the issue of where Clinton’s web of lies about her e mail was treated as one lie vs several lies. Sorry, but your fact checkers pretend to be impartial, but are just a bunch of bias hacks pretending to be impartial journist.

You opinion is duly noted...

[carpedm9587]

This is an opinion piece, and the Washington Post is categorized as "left-of-center" but with a high level of accuracy in their reporting and a World Press Freedom Rank of 45/180. I frankly have no idea what that latter ranking means, given that I thought the World Press Freedom Index was about countries. If someone knows, I'd love to learn.