Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[Cow Poke]

You mean churches? Nah... they just poison young minds with ancient myths!

Actually, mr-can't-read-my-mind-cause-it's-so-murky, I was referring to the social safety net - Children's Protective Services and such.

[carpedm9587]

Actually, mr-can't-read-my-mind-cause-it's-so-murky, I was referring to the social safety net - Children's Protective Services and such.

Oops...


But it was fun...


ETA: and what exactly did you think I meant by "social services," Mr. I'm-so-crabby-because-my-red-neck-is-making-my-chaps-chafe

[Cow Poke]

ETA: and what exactly did you think I meant by "social services," Mr. I'm-so-crabby-because-my-red-neck-is-making-my-chaps-chafe

I think this is a good example of how "hard wired" you are to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Let's look at the conversation.

I said said...

But those kids have homes here, or extended family, or somewhere to go.

To which you responded...

Generally, yes. There are exceptions, of course, which is where social services comes in.

And I was AGREEING - kinda like, well, yeah, that's what I meant to say...

And I almost added "or other support system".

That YOU turned into...

You mean churches? Nah... they just poison young minds with ancient myths!

Put your sword and armor down, you pinko commie liberal anti-Christian goofus*!





*note to Heckle and Jeckle - this is "name calling" in fun, and Carpe knows it (and has engaged in it) so it doesn't count in your anti-CP crybabyfest.

[carpedm9587]

I think this is a good example of how "hard wired" you are to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Let's look at the conversation.

I said said...

To which you responded...

And I was AGREEING - kinda like, well, yeah, that's what I meant to say...

That YOU turned into...

Put your sword and armor down, you pinko commie liberal anti-Christian goofus*!

*note to Heckle and Jeckle - this is "name calling" in fun, and Carpe knows it (and has engaged in it) so it doesn't count in your anti-CP crybabyfest.

And it's completely beyond the pale that someone would have misunderstood your intent given the context,

especially given the fact that you are an unrepentant defender of ancient myths...

[Cow Poke]

And it's completely beyond the pale that someone would have misunderstood your intent given the context,

especially given the fact that you are an unrepentant defender of ancient myths...

You're sniffing squirrel poop again, aren't you.

[carpedm9587]

You're sniffing squirrel poop again, aren't you.

Not a lot of squirrels around here. I have to make do with chipmunks and moles. It is really hard to get your nose close to the backside of a chipmunk, but molasses are plentiful!

[Tassman]

...is we have no actual immigration policy.

That needs to be fixed.

HateTrump won't fix that.

The "underlying problem" of not having a comprehensive immigration policy is not the topic of this thread. This is a deflection worthy of Trump himself, and typical of his pattern of deflection, distraction and denial. You deny supporting Trump over separating and imprisoning little children but you refuse to blame him, preferring instead to blame the system...or the Democrats as Trump initially tried to do.

But, it was NOT the system at fault that led to this tragic debacle. It was the deliberate policy of Trump's administration as announced by Sessions in May: "The U.S. would take a stricter stance on illegal crossings at the Mexican border and that this would result in parents and children being separated". And now we have hundreds of little children who may never be reunited with their parents.

[carpedm9587]

The "underlying problem" of not having a comprehensive immigration policy is not the topic of this thread. This is a deflection worthy of Trump himself, and typical of his pattern of deflection, distraction and denial. You deny supporting Trump over separating and imprisoning little children but you refuse to blame him, preferring instead to blame the system...or the Democrats as Trump initially tried to do.

But, it was NOT the system at fault that led to this tragic debacle. It was the deliberate policy of Trump's administration as announced by Sessions in May: "The U.S. would take a stricter stance on illegal crossings at the Mexican border and that this would result in parents and children being separated". And now we have hundreds of little children who may never be reunited with their parents.

Which - if you read the thread, CP did acknowledge was a horrendous policy that should never have been put in place.

It took a bit, but he eventually got there.

[Cow Poke]

The "underlying problem" of not having a comprehensive immigration policy is not the topic of this thread.

Leave it to a leftist to want to ignore the actual underlying problem, and declare it "a pattern of deflection"....

This is a deflection worthy of Trump himself,

I guess, as you become more like him in your gross exaggerations and mistruths, you consider yourself an authority, eh?

[quote]and typical of his pattern of deflection, distraction and denial. You deny supporting Trump over separating and imprisoning little children but you refuse to blame him, preferring instead to blame the system...[/'quote]

I've already addressed that, Trump Junior.

or the Democrats as Trump initially tried to do.

BOTH sides are complicit in this - NEITHER side really wants to solve the problem.

But, it was NOT the system at fault that led to this tragic debacle. It was the deliberate policy of Trump's administration as announced by Sessions in May: "The U.S. would take a stricter stance on illegal crossings at the Mexican border and that this would result in parents and children being separated". And now we have hundreds of little children who may never be reunited with their parents.

And the only reason you care is because you can dig down deeper in your "I HATE TRUMP so I'm becoming more like him" journey.

Tassman --- you are morphing into TRUMP, but with opposite political views!

[Cow Poke]

Which - if you read the thread, CP did acknowledge was a horrendous policy that should never have been put in place.

Never said it wasn't.

It took a bit, but he eventually got there.

It would have happened a lot sooner had there not been so much wild-eyed crazed misinformation and drama from the usual suspects.

[Sparko]

Lookie what I found. Here's some "whataboutism" for you liberals.


===========
For Immediate Release
Contact: Bill Chandler
Wednesday, June 15, 1994
202/224-9629


SENATOR FEINSTEIN INTRODUCES BROAD LEGISLATION TO RESTRICT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

United States Senator Dianne Feinstein today introduced broad
legislation to stop illegal immigration. The Illegal Immigration
Control and Enforcement Act of 1994, which was introduced by the Senator
during a Judiciary Committee hearing, contains border enforcement
measures and several measures to reduce the incentives, such as federal
assistance, for illegal immigrants to come to the United States.

Nearly a year ago, Senator Feinstein introduced legislation to
increase the number of Border Patrol Agents, improve the asylum process
and increase penalties for those who illegally smuggle immigrants into
this country. The new legislation introduced today contains these
provisions but also: creates a counterfeit-proof work identity card;
prohibits direct cash assistance to immigrants who are not permanent
residents, refugees or asylees; requires sponsors of legal immigrants to
provide financial support for them until they become United States
citizens so they do not rely on public assistance; and establishes an
"interior repatriation" program to return illegal immigrants caught at
the border to the interior of their country.

"Last year, I described my fears that if the federal government
did not act aggressively to stop illegal immigration there could be a
backlash against all immigrants. In that period of time, Congress has
refused to move forward on legislation aimed at stopping illegal
immigration. With the growing drumbeat of concerns in states such as
California, Congress can no longer refuse to act. The legislation I am
introducing today enables the federal government to enforce the laws
already on the books," Senator Feinstein said today.

"When illegal immigrants try to cross the border, they know that
if they make it, they can easily buy counterfeit credentials that enable
them to work illegally. And
-more-

-2-

they know too that they will be eligible for certain federal benefits.
My bill would end these abuses," the Senator added. "This legislation
specifically protects legal immigration so the federal government can
focus on the problem of illegal immigration."

The Illegal Immigration Control and Enforcement Act of 1994 would:

_Increase the strength of the Border Patrol by 2,100 agents over three
years. It would also boost the number of aircraft, vehicles and
detection devices used to secure our borders.

_Speed the legal crossing at all land borders by fully staffing existing
border gates and authorizing the construction of new facilities needed to
handle the crossing volume.

_Create a counterfeit-proof identity card aimed at eliminating the use of
false documents. False documents allow illegal immigrants to gain
employment unlawfully and to obtain federally-funded public assistance
benefits. In addition, the legislation increases penalties for those who
make and sell false documents.

_Set up a two-year pilot "interior repatriation" program in San Diego to
remove those who illegally cross the border to the "interior" of their
home country. The United States Attorney in the San Diego area
specifically asked the Senator to give them this authority to prevent
repeated attempts to cross the border illegally in a short period of time.

_Prohibit direct cash assistance -- such as Aid to Families With
Dependent Children or Supplemental Security Income -- to immigrants who
are not legal permanent residents, refugees or asylees.

_Require citizens who sponsor legal immigrants to provide complete
financial support for them until they become U.S. citizens. Such a
measure would prevent potential immigrants with sponsors from becoming
reliant on public assistance.

_Establish that an applicant for asylum is not automatically entitled to
work authorization. Additionally, it would take steps to expedite the
asylum process and reduce the backlog of asylum claims.

-more-
-3-

_Increase penalties for the smuggling of illegal immigrants from five to
10 years, and imposes an additional penalty if the smuggler endangers the
life of the immigrant. A smuggler who causes an alien's death would be
subject to the death penalty.

_Provide for the prompt deportation of any non green card holder who has
been convicted of an aggravated felony and is deportable.

_Reduce cases of abuse against illegal immigrants by providing improved
training for both active Border Patrol agents and new hires and requiring
the Attorney General to report to Congress each year on this effort.

This legislation also contains a funding mechanism to support
these border improvements. It would impose a modest $1 border crossing
fee to pay for these improvements. Based on 1992 Customs figures, a $1
crossing fee could raise between $300 and $400 million a year so this
border enforcement program is self funding.

"When I visited a 14 mile stretch of the border in San Diego
County a year ago, I saw a mere handful of agents watching over this
expanse, only a single night-vision scope was in place to catch those
trying to enter the country illegally, and the border fence was
incomplete. But when I returned to the same spot earlier this month,
after having helped secure a $45 million appropriation to better police
the Southwest border, things had clearly improved. Lights were in place,
the fence was nearly complete and 40 new U.S. agents were on duty.

"Most important, Border Patrol agents on the line in San Diego
report that they are now catching 60 percent of those trying to enter the
nation illegally, up from 50 percent last year. At the same time, the
overall number of people apprehended has actually decreased. From what I
saw, border enforcement can work. But, this must just be the beginning
if the federal government is serious about stopping illegal immigration,"
the Senator added.



https://www.calvoter.org/archive/94g...feinpres2.html

[bolding mine]

[carpedm9587]

Lookie what I found. Here's some "whataboutism" for you liberals.


===========
For Immediate Release
Contact: Bill Chandler
Wednesday, June 15, 1994
202/224-9629


SENATOR FEINSTEIN INTRODUCES BROAD LEGISLATION TO RESTRICT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

United States Senator Dianne Feinstein today introduced broad
legislation to stop illegal immigration. The Illegal Immigration
Control and Enforcement Act of 1994, which was introduced by the Senator
during a Judiciary Committee hearing, contains border enforcement
measures and several measures to reduce the incentives, such as federal
assistance, for illegal immigrants to come to the United States.

Nearly a year ago, Senator Feinstein introduced legislation to
increase the number of Border Patrol Agents, improve the asylum process
and increase penalties for those who illegally smuggle immigrants into
this country. The new legislation introduced today contains these
provisions but also: creates a counterfeit-proof work identity card;
prohibits direct cash assistance to immigrants who are not permanent
residents, refugees or asylees; requires sponsors of legal immigrants to
provide financial support for them until they become United States
citizens so they do not rely on public assistance; and establishes an
"interior repatriation" program to return illegal immigrants caught at
the border to the interior of their country.

"Last year, I described my fears that if the federal government
did not act aggressively to stop illegal immigration there could be a
backlash against all immigrants. In that period of time, Congress has
refused to move forward on legislation aimed at stopping illegal
immigration. With the growing drumbeat of concerns in states such as
California, Congress can no longer refuse to act. The legislation I am
introducing today enables the federal government to enforce the laws
already on the books," Senator Feinstein said today.

"When illegal immigrants try to cross the border, they know that
if they make it, they can easily buy counterfeit credentials that enable
them to work illegally. And
-more-

-2-

they know too that they will be eligible for certain federal benefits.
My bill would end these abuses," the Senator added. "This legislation
specifically protects legal immigration so the federal government can
focus on the problem of illegal immigration."

The Illegal Immigration Control and Enforcement Act of 1994 would:

_Increase the strength of the Border Patrol by 2,100 agents over three
years. It would also boost the number of aircraft, vehicles and
detection devices used to secure our borders.

_Speed the legal crossing at all land borders by fully staffing existing
border gates and authorizing the construction of new facilities needed to
handle the crossing volume.

_Create a counterfeit-proof identity card aimed at eliminating the use of
false documents. False documents allow illegal immigrants to gain
employment unlawfully and to obtain federally-funded public assistance
benefits. In addition, the legislation increases penalties for those who
make and sell false documents.

_Set up a two-year pilot "interior repatriation" program in San Diego to
remove those who illegally cross the border to the "interior" of their
home country. The United States Attorney in the San Diego area
specifically asked the Senator to give them this authority to prevent
repeated attempts to cross the border illegally in a short period of time.

_Prohibit direct cash assistance -- such as Aid to Families With
Dependent Children or Supplemental Security Income -- to immigrants who
are not legal permanent residents, refugees or asylees.

_Require citizens who sponsor legal immigrants to provide complete
financial support for them until they become U.S. citizens. Such a
measure would prevent potential immigrants with sponsors from becoming
reliant on public assistance.

_Establish that an applicant for asylum is not automatically entitled to
work authorization. Additionally, it would take steps to expedite the
asylum process and reduce the backlog of asylum claims.

-more-
-3-

_Increase penalties for the smuggling of illegal immigrants from five to
10 years, and imposes an additional penalty if the smuggler endangers the
life of the immigrant. A smuggler who causes an alien's death would be
subject to the death penalty.

_Provide for the prompt deportation of any non green card holder who has
been convicted of an aggravated felony and is deportable.

_Reduce cases of abuse against illegal immigrants by providing improved
training for both active Border Patrol agents and new hires and requiring
the Attorney General to report to Congress each year on this effort.

This legislation also contains a funding mechanism to support
these border improvements. It would impose a modest $1 border crossing
fee to pay for these improvements. Based on 1992 Customs figures, a $1
crossing fee could raise between $300 and $400 million a year so this
border enforcement program is self funding.

"When I visited a 14 mile stretch of the border in San Diego
County a year ago, I saw a mere handful of agents watching over this
expanse, only a single night-vision scope was in place to catch those
trying to enter the country illegally, and the border fence was
incomplete. But when I returned to the same spot earlier this month,
after having helped secure a $45 million appropriation to better police
the Southwest border, things had clearly improved. Lights were in place,
the fence was nearly complete and 40 new U.S. agents were on duty.

"Most important, Border Patrol agents on the line in San Diego
report that they are now catching 60 percent of those trying to enter the
nation illegally, up from 50 percent last year. At the same time, the
overall number of people apprehended has actually decreased. From what I
saw, border enforcement can work. But, this must just be the beginning
if the federal government is serious about stopping illegal immigration,"
the Senator added.



https://www.calvoter.org/archive/94g...feinpres2.html

[bolding mine]

Why is any of this a surprise? I don't know a single person on the left that is "for illegal immigration." I certainly am not. But I DO know a lot of people on the left who want us, as a country, to acknowledge our part in creating the current illegal immigration mess, and not place the entire burden on those who immigrated illegally. Yes - they came in illegally: their fault. And we have had a muddled, mismanaged, unenforced set of immigration laws that made it possible for them to do so and stay as long as they did: our fault. So now let's take a few simple steps.

1) Close the borders in a meaningful way (and a stupid wall is not going to cut it, for all of the reasons already cited in other posts - it's a part of the solution for some places, but not the entire solution)
2) Set a stake in the sand: after date X (today), any illegal immigrant entering will be deported without question. And then make it happen.
3) Deport anyone with a significant legal transgression
4) Put the remaining illegal immigrants already here on a rigorous and demanding path to citizenship. It should be MORE rigorous than what someone entering legally had to do (e.g., many hours of community service, rigorous testing, etc.)

My $.02

[Mountain Man]

Why is any of this a surprise? I don't know a single person on the left that is "for illegal immigration."

You mean personally know? Or are you claiming that you're not aware of any who are in favor of it? Because I know there are plenty of liberals who are in favor of it -- including many Democrat politicians -- even if I may not know them personally.

[Sparko]

Why is any of this a surprise? I don't know a single person on the left that is "for illegal immigration." I certainly am not. But I DO know a lot of people on the left who want us, as a country, to acknowledge our part in creating the current illegal immigration mess, and not place the entire burden on those who immigrated illegally. Yes - they came in illegally: their fault. And we have had a muddled, mismanaged, unenforced set of immigration laws that made it possible for them to do so and stay as long as they did: our fault. So now let's take a few simple steps.

1) Close the borders in a meaningful way (and a stupid wall is not going to cut it, for all of the reasons already cited in other posts - it's a part of the solution for some places, but not the entire solution)
2) Set a stake in the sand: after date X (today), any illegal immigrant entering will be deported without question. And then make it happen.
3) Deport anyone with a significant legal transgression
4) Put the remaining illegal immigrants already here on a rigorous and demanding path to citizenship. It should be MORE rigorous than what someone entering legally had to do (e.g., many hours of community service, rigorous testing, etc.)

My $.02

More Carpy hand-waving dismissal.

Because Feinstein is currently against beefing up border protection and is making Trump out as a monster for wanting to build a wall and wanting to limit ICE's power. And she and her ilk (I likes that word!) are fighting to keep illegals in the country and sanctuary cities (she has flip-flopped several times on this topic - in 2008 supporting them, then in 2015 not supporting them after a couple of murders by illegals, and now supporting them again) and giving them welfare and against deporting them. AND AGAINST REQUIRING PHOTO ID. Yet in 1994 she was for all of that and more.

[Cow Poke]

You mean personally know? Or are you claiming that you're not aware of any who are in favor of it? Because I know there are plenty of liberals who are in favor of it -- including many Democrat politicians -- even if I may not know them personally.

The issue is clouded by the fact that they strip the word "illegal" from "illegal immigration" when they support it.