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Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

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  • Originally posted by Roy View Post
    Your in the UK right? So you DON'T have a border that pours 11 million ILLEGALS across your border annually.
    Nor do you.
    Does she not realize that Brexit was majorly about immigration concerns? Though nothing would surprise me about her levels of ignorance at this point.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Does she not realize that Brexit was majorly about immigration concerns? Though nothing would surprise me about her levels of ignorance at this point.
      Brexit wasn't really "majorly about immigration concerns", cost of EU membership featured heavily too, as did unpopular EU legislation e.g. votes for prison inmates.

      Checking various sources suggest that about 3% of the US population is an illegal immigrant, compared with 1% of the UK population. The total immigration levels are about the same, 14% in the US and 13% in the UK.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I don't think that I've ever seen you merely dismiss anything as a left-wing meme.
        A lot of studies on the topic have found that left-wingers tend to fact-check at a much higher rate than right-wingers (probably at least partially because they believe in the inherent validity of fact-checking websites), so false memes have a very short lifetime on the left, while false right-wing memes tend to spread unchecked.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          Brexit wasn't really "majorly about immigration concerns", cost of EU membership featured heavily too, as did unpopular EU legislation e.g. votes for prison inmates.
          I saw immigration concerns featured a lot in the news related to Brexit. Sure, there were plenty of other things, like the EU membership fee and wouldn't it be great spending it on healthcare instead etc. But there was plenty of "if we weren't in the EU we could shut our borders better because we wouldn't be bound by as many of the EU rules on freedom of movement".

          Votes for prison inmates? I didn't see that at all. Why is that controversial? Of course everyone gets to vote in a democracy, that's pretty basic. (I'm aware right-wing parties have a tendency to be undemocratic and try to suppress and gerrymander the vote, and stealing voting rights from prisoners is low-hanging fruit for them in this regard. I regard it as obviously undemocratic and hence immoral and corrupt.)

          Checking various sources suggest that about 3% of the US population is an illegal immigrant, compared with 1% of the UK population. The total immigration levels are about the same, 14% in the US and 13% in the UK.
          Here the numbers are about 27% of the population is immigrant, but only 0.25% are illegal (all visa overstayers, being a remote island has its perks) and our authorities here told reporters, when asked, that they have "no plans" to anything about visa overstayers. I recommend not getting up into the 20%s on immigrants because house prices go way up, because it turns out they all want to buy houses and new houses can only be built so fast.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Sanders included both underemployment (employed people doing menial or part time jobs who despite having qualifications and skills can't find the full-time jobs they want matching those qualifications and skills) and unemployment in his statement (and was quite specific and careful about doing so), while Trump was only talking about unemployment. So, apples and oranges. Sanders was right, Trump was wrong.

            Black unemployment was around 25%, black underemployment was around 25%. Sanders said unemployment and underemployment combined were at 51% which was pretty much bang on. In fact, I think it's totally unreasonable that the fact checkers only gave Sanders "mostly true" rather than completely true. Trump claimed black unemployment was at 59%, which is bonkers. The fact checkers themselves are mostly at a loss for where he might have pulled such a wild claim from. I think it's totally unreasonable the fact checkers only gave that a "mostly false" rather than completely false. I would attribute both to their ongoing biases as they try to bend over backwards to try to be 'fair' to Republicans while being particularly harsh on Sanders.
            It’s so amusing to watch Starlight taking Trump literally and not seriously and failing to understand that’s among the reasons he won.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              A lot of studies on the topic have found that left-wingers tend to fact-check at a much higher rate than right-wingers (probably at least partially because they believe in the inherent validity of fact-checking websites), so false memes have a very short lifetime on the left, while false right-wing memes tend to spread unchecked.
              I like how Starlight ignores that left-wingers don’t understand their opponents and their positions and are more likely to accept authoritariam vs right-wingers. Although the real icing on the cake is how Starlight calls littlejoe a women because he can’t be bothered to read a post bit while claiming he is more likely to fact check things. Sometimes you can’t make this stuff up.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Then provide the sourcing for that claim, Sparko. I provided several sources for the claims I've made.
                So have I. And rogue. And Seer, and I believe Mountain Man. Go back and read the thread.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  So have I. And rogue. And Seer, and I believe Mountain Man. Go back and read the thread.
                  carpe thinks that if he breezily dismisses something with the idle wave of a hand then it really doesn't count.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Except that illegal entry into the country is a misdemeanor under the law. When charged with a felony, incarceration pending a hearing is the norm. When charged with a misdemeanor, it is typically not.
                    depends entirely on the misdemeanor and circumstance. If the crime involves avoiding the authorities or a flight risk, then they are arrested.


                    The option of providing a citation exists.
                    Are you insane? Give a ticket to people who do not have papers, are not citizens and have no permanent address? That are trying to sneak into the country illegally? Exactly how would that work? Please. Tell me.

                    The law also says nothing about not being able to confine the adults with children in a joint shelter - it simply prohibits sending the kids to the slammer.
                    The law says that someone who enters the country illegally is arrested. Where they keep them is called a jail. Whether it is in a warehouse or an actual jail, it is the same thing. The liberals will not be happy unless the parents and children are released and free to enter the country. The ACLU is already complaining about Trump signing the executive order that Schumer wanted him to sign, keeping the parents and children together in the detention centers.


                    Bottom line, Trump is CHOOSING to...

                    ...prosecute these people
                    ...send them to a federal penitentiary (which the children cannot go to)
                    Who said they are going to a federal prison??????
                    Show me that!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      Right. What makes you think I wouldn't agree on that? Why the need to point to something so obvious?



                      So now the Christians want to build walls. Perhaps you are planning to decorate the wall with Bible quotes like:



                      I still don't see how any of what you write adresses the problem of separating an innocent child from its' parants. Experts have repeatedly said this is, or is at least close to, torture. But you skipped that part. Other than that I agree that acting illegally should have consequences, I just fail to see that the consequences in this case in which they are put onto those who have suffered so much more than we have are proportionate and just.

                      And you just can't avoid the appeal to common practice fallacy, can you: "This is US Law. It has been this way for a number of years." Quite many things have been law for a number of years while still being unfair.
                      Now THAT was ad hominen!

                      Now try to actually answer the questions instead.

                      If someone breaks the law, they are arrested and go to jail. Sneaking across the border is a crime. This is US Law. It has been this way for a number of years. Seems to be a good law. You don't want people sneaking into your country illegally. There are legal channels to immigrate into a country. Isn't it unfair to all of the people who are waiting in line legally if someone cuts in front of them and sneaks in illegally, taking their place?

                      Rational Gaze, one of our member here from England, married Quantafille, another member from the USA and he had to wait many months to get a VISA to come over here. And he was married to an American! Was it fair for him to have to wait that long and have hundreds of Mexican people sneak across the border illegally during his wait?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        A lot of studies on the topic have found...
                        That's quite an exhaustive list or studies you cited to support your left-wing pronouncement!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I was intrigued to read a comment from the immigration lawyer I cited earlier in the thread, that he believes the physical border is now completely secure due to modern technology and enforcement, because in his personal dealings with thousands of illegal immigrants he has never met a single one who recently (in the last decade) crossed the border without being caught at or near the border. His view was now that 100% of uncaught illegal immigration is via people landing in airplanes with valid visas and then overstaying after their visa has expired. Obviously government databases record people entering/exiting the country via airplanes and they can generate exact numbers and lists of the people who entered with a valid visa but who have not subsequently left the country.
                          That lawyer is full of crap. If he really is a lawyer.

                          There are parts of the border that are not even patrolled. And other parts where people can just stroll across.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            That lawyer is full of crap. If he really is a lawyer.

                            There are parts of the border that are not even patrolled. And other parts where people can just stroll across.
                            They have no clue!
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              You're such a drama queen. The children are kept in clean, comfortable facilities, given healthcare, meals, an education, receive counselling, and engage in socially and culturally enriching activities. How evil.

                              Or maybe you would rather that Trump kept them crammed in stark, unfurnished cages like Obama.
                              And the ones that avoid capture often end up dead, dying of exposure.

                              I was saying earlier how it was child abuse to drag children through snake infested deadly desert with no shelter, food and water. And the liberals complain when we capture them, separate them but give them food, healthcare and shelter. How evil of the US Government! We should just let them continue to die in the open!


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                They have no clue!
                                When I lived in El Paso, which is right on the border, the Rio Grande was no more than a creek a few inches deep and about 10 foot wide. You could wade across without even getting your pants wet.

                                Comment

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