Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[Cow Poke]

In other threads I have pointed out to Cow Poke...

This is about me, isn't it?

[Sparko]

Interesting detail:

Source: ibid

Donald Trump tweeted on the issue on Tuesday, blaming the opposition party. “Separating families at the Border is the fault of bad legislation passed by the Democrats,” he wrote. “Border Security laws should be changed but the Dems can’t get their act together! Started the Wall.”

The policy of separating families at the border was announced by Trump’s attorney general and implemented by Trump’s administration.

© Copyright Original Source

a link would be nice.. seems like even in those cases it was about illegal entry:

The spokeswoman Ravina Shamdasani said the policy had “led to people caught entering the country irregularly being subjected to criminal prosecution and having their children – including extremely young children – taken away from them as a result”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-from-parents

Any child being taken during a legal seeking of asylum, I do think is wrong.

[Roy]

a link would be nice.. seems like even in those cases it was about illegal entry:

"Irregular" is not necessarily "illegal".

Any child being taken during a legal seeking of asylum, I do think is wrong.

Then it's time to vote...

[Cow Poke]

"Irregular" is not necessarily "illegal". Then it's time to vote...

Actually, you can't vote yet cause election day ... um.....





nevermind

[Sparko]

"Irregular" is not necessarily "illegal". Then it's time to vote...

I don't think a citizen has to agree with every decision someone they elected makes. Do you?

[rogue06]

Interesting detail:

Source: ibid

Donald Trump tweeted on the issue on Tuesday, blaming the opposition party. “Separating families at the Border is the fault of bad legislation passed by the Democrats,” he wrote. “Border Security laws should be changed but the Dems can’t get their act together! Started the Wall.”

The policy of separating families at the border was announced by Trump’s attorney general and implemented by Trump’s administration.

© Copyright Original Source

Actually things are much more muddy

Source: The untold history behind the Trump administration separating children from parents at the U.S. border

The separation of children from their parents at the southern U.S. border has drawn broad public outrage - but less talked about is a little-known lawsuit that has played a major role in making the Trump administration policy reality.

The history is complicated, and it goes back to 1997, when the federal government, under former President Bill Clinton, settled a lawsuit that dictated how unaccompanied minors must be treated while in U.S. custody.

The opposing parties in the case, Flores v. Reno, agreed on terms requiring that unaccompanied children held in federal custody be placed in 'the least restrictive' environment possible.

Later, as more parents started crossing the U.S. border with very young children, the Obama administration responded by establishing large-scale family detention centers in Texas and Pennsylvania.

The move drew criticism from immigrant rights activists, and a federal judge ruled in 2015 that the family centers were in violation of Flores v. Reno – even though the original settlement was intended only to apply to unaccompanied minors.

That legal standard is still in place, and it means that children cannot be held in detention centers for more than 72 hours – even if they are with their parents, said Leon Fresco, former deputy assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Immigration under President Obama.

'The only two choices for the current administration is to let people in who are seeking asylum - which this (Trump) administration doesn't want to do - or separate parents from children,' Fresco said.

The decision on Flores led the Obama administration to institute a policy of primarily releasing asylum seekers who were caught at the border with their children.

'We (in the Obama administration) never thought we would separate the parents and the children,' Fresco said. 'But I warned at the time that a different administration could do that.'

The New York Times reported in April that roughly 700 children have been separated from their parents so far under the Trump administration. U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officials declined to comment for this story.

But it was that Obama-era policy that encouraged parents to bring their children along for illegal border crossings in the first place, said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington D.C.-based anti-immigration think tank.

'It was Obama's policy of letting anybody go who had a kid with them that created the expectation that it would work,' he said.

Lawyers with the American Civil Liberties Union are in the midst of a lawsuit challenging the Trump administration's policy of separating parents and children

But it was that Obama-era policy that encouraged parents to bring their children along for illegal border crossings in the first place, said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington D.C.-based anti-immigration think tank.

'It was Obama's policy of letting anybody go who had a kid with them that created the expectation that it would work,' he said.

Lawyers with the American Civil Liberties Union are in the midst of a lawsuit challenging the Trump administration's policy of separating parents and children

Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project, argued that there is a 'third choice' that should be legal regardless of the Flores settlement.

'Flores is not supposed to override a parent's choice and have their child sent to a strange facility,' said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project.

'A mother needs to have the ability to decide whether sending an 18-month-old to a less restrictive facility is the best choice,' he added.

Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project, argued that there is a 'third choice' that should be legal regardless of the Flores settlement.

'Flores is not supposed to override a parent's choice and have their child sent to a strange facility,' said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants' Rights Project.

'A mother needs to have the ability to decide whether sending an 18-month-old to a less restrictive facility is the best choice,' he added.

'No prior administration has done this,' he said. 'This is solely a Trump administration choice.'

'We don't believe it will deter asylum seekers,' he added.




Source

© Copyright Original Source

Essentially the choices are either separate the children from the parents or let the parents skate. Considering that it is hardly uncommon to separate the parents from their children when the parents break the law this looks like a whole lot of selective outrage.

[Roy]

Actually things are much more muddy

They usually are.

Essentially the choices are either separate the children from the parents or let the parents skate.

Choice #3 would be to keep the children detained with the parents in some form of family detainment centre - which makes sense because if the parents are seeking asylum, their children probably are/would too.

[rogue06]

They usually are. Choice #3 would be to keep the children detained with the parents in some form of family detainment centre - which makes sense because if the parents are seeking asylum, their children probably are/would too.

If you had bothered to read the article you would have seen that they tried that but it was rebuffed by the courts when immigrant rights activists complained

The opposing parties in the case, Flores v. Reno, agreed on terms requiring that unaccompanied children held in federal custody be placed in 'the least restrictive' environment possible.

Later, as more parents started crossing the U.S. border with very young children, the Obama administration responded by establishing large-scale family detention centers in Texas and Pennsylvania.

The move drew criticism from immigrant rights activists, and a federal judge ruled in 2015 that the family centers were in violation of Flores v. Reno – even though the original settlement was intended only to apply to unaccompanied minors.

That legal standard is still in place, and it means that children cannot be held in detention centers for more than 72 hours – even if they are with their parents, said Leon Fresco, former deputy assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Immigration under President Obama.

'The only two choices for the current administration is to let people in who are seeking asylum - which this (Trump) administration doesn't want to do - or separate parents from children,' Fresco said.

So it has been reduced to two choices. Separate the families or let them walk free.

[Roy]

If you had bothered to read the article ...

I read the article.

So it has been reduced to two choices. Separate the families or let them walk free.

Or expand it back to three choices again by reversing the apparently incorrect ruling.

[rogue06]

I read the article. Or expand it back to three choices again by reversing the apparently incorrect ruling.

That is not a choice currently available. Right now we are stuck with only two choices and have to deal with what is not with what we would prefer.

[Mountain Man]

That is not a choice currently available. Right now we are stuck with only two choices and have to deal with what is not with what we would prefer.

I think you forgot you're talking with liberals who believe in the Obama policy of "If you don't like the law then just ignore it."

[Sparko]

If you had bothered to read the article you would have seen that they tried that but it was rebuffed by the courts when immigrant rights activists complained

The opposing parties in the case, Flores v. Reno, agreed on terms requiring that unaccompanied children held in federal custody be placed in 'the least restrictive' environment possible.

Later, as more parents started crossing the U.S. border with very young children, the Obama administration responded by establishing large-scale family detention centers in Texas and Pennsylvania.

The move drew criticism from immigrant rights activists, and a federal judge ruled in 2015 that the family centers were in violation of Flores v. Reno – even though the original settlement was intended only to apply to unaccompanied minors.

That legal standard is still in place, and it means that children cannot be held in detention centers for more than 72 hours – even if they are with their parents, said Leon Fresco, former deputy assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Immigration under President Obama.

'The only two choices for the current administration is to let people in who are seeking asylum - which this (Trump) administration doesn't want to do - or separate parents from children,' Fresco said.

So it has been reduced to two choices. Separate the families or let them walk free.

What about let them walk free but back in Mexico instead of the USA?

[Sparko]

Here is an article from when Obama was President:

================

Kids in Cages (Fundamentally Transforming America)

...Border patrol agents report that the juveniles say they came because they believe children will not be deported, that amnesty will soon be forthcoming and they will be allowed to attain legal status.

Last week’s announcement that deferment only applies to minors who were brought to the US before June 15, 2007 was too little, too late.

At least 700 (and counting) of these children are now warehoused in Nogales at a makeshift holding center. Apparently ICE in Texas was too overwhelmed to check for infectious diseases before loading them on buses. According to Townhall.com scabies and tuberculosis are becoming a public health concern.




Townhall.com among others have posted pictures of the facility (a former warehouse) showing children crowded into chain link enclosures, sleeping on park benches or on the floor, awaiting the arrival of sufficient mattresses and other necessities. Despite the protests of AZ governor Jan Brewer, another thousand juveniles are to be sent to the Arizona facility over the weekend.

More than 1000 minors are also housed at Lockland Air Force Base in San Antonio and others are headed to a base in Ventura County, California.

http://www.whatwouldthefoundersthink...orming-america












35288955_10214432095468606_6321249629786603520_n.jpg

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[rogue06]

The image of a child locked in a cage tweeted by immigration rights activist and former Washington Post and Huffington Post reporter Jose Antonio Vargas this past Monday was staged coming from a protest in Dallas over the weekend

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After it was already exposed the fake fact checkers at Snopes declared that the image was merely "miscaptioned"

[Starlight]

ICE has been terrible since its establishment under the Bush administration. It should be abolished.