Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

A Thought About Healthcare

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Examples are not arguments. No medical facility is going to have a perfect record. The medical world also has the concept of "triage."

    This is not simply having or not having a perfect record.

    This is the norm in this country.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      I should note that many lawyers are absolute masters at playing on the emotions of jurors. They continue to point out how much the family lost and is suffering through no fault of their own and need help and then slip in how the doctor/hospital (or in other cases business) has "deep pockets" and insurance (though rarely enough to cover some of these multi-million judgments). The result often is massive awards for things such as this.
      most jurors are not idiots though. We had a trial recently where a woman was in a car accident, which she was partially responsible for, and she broke a finger. She was suing her insurance company, claiming she could not be a nurse because of permanent damage to her finger and wanted over $200K in pain and suffering and loss of wages. The jury took 2 hours to come back and gave her nothing.

      Comment


      • #18
        Here's a specific example for carpe.

        5 years ago this month my husband saw our family doc because he was having shortness of breath.

        Doc was concerned and set him up for a stress test and we had to wait 2 weeks for that.

        The cardiologist said that he wanted my husband to have an angiogram, and he sent the request in. I didn't hear for 2 weeks from anybody, so I phoned the hospital where the test was to take place. I was told they were booking in September and someone would get back to me. It was the second week of July. I asked that he be placed on a cancellation list. I could tell he was not doing well. I never did hear from anybody about an appointment.

        We got a call on August 15 that there was an opening on the 19th. He went in, had the test, and they found that he had 3 blockages, one at a three-way artery junction that they call "the widow-maker". He needed surgery.

        He was told they wanted to keep him in hospital until they had a surgery date, he felt like he wanted to come home. The cardiologist told him that if he went home, it would be 3 MONTHS before he would get into surgery, and he would die at home.

        He opted to stay, spent 10 days at that hospital before they transferred him to the other one with the best cardio unit in the country. He was exactly 2 weeks in the hospitals altogether. They actually had to do a quadruple bypass.

        Now, you tell me how long you would have to wait for a stress test, an angiogram, and heart surgery.

        It's only because of God's grace and the fact the cardiologist recommended that my husband stay in the hospital instead of going home that I believe he's alive today. That doctor knew that if he wasn't "in the system" the chances were very slim that he would get the surgery.

        People die here because of wait times.
        Last edited by mossrose; 06-16-2018, 09:22 AM.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          Here's a specific example for carpe.

          5 years ago this month my husband saw our family doc because he was having shortness of breath.

          Doc was concerned and set him up for a stress test and we had to wait 2 weeks for that.

          The cardiologist said that he wanted my husband to have an angiogram, and he sent the request in. I didn't hear for 2 weeks from anybody, so I phoned the hospital where the test was to take place. I was told they were booking in September and someone would get back to me. It was the second week of July. I asked that he be placed on a cancellation list. I could tell he was not doing well. I never did hear from anybody about an appointment.

          We got a call on August 15 that there was an opening on the 19th. He went in, had the test, and they found that he had 3 blockages, one at a three-way artery junction that they call "the widow-maker". He needed surgery.

          He was told they wanted to keep him in hospital until they had a surgery date, he felt like he wanted to come home. The cardiologist told him that if he went home, it would be 3 MONTHS before he would get into surgery, and he would die at home.

          He opted to stay, spent 10 days at that hospital before they transferred him to the other one with the best cardio unit in the country. He was exactly 2 weeks in the hospitals altogether. They actually had to do a quadruple bypass.

          Now, you tell me how long you would have to wait for a stress test, an angiogram, and heart surgery.

          It's only because the cardiologist recommended that my husband stay in the hospital instead of going home that I believe he's alive today. That doctor knew that if he wasn't "in the system" the chances were very slim that he would get the surgery.

          People die here because of wait times.


          In march I went to a cardiologist and told him I wanted a heart cath because both of my brothers recently had heart problems and one is 14 years younger than me.
          The cardiologist scheduled me for a the cath the very next weekend. I went in and had it done and they found one blockage that they fixed. It was 70% blocked. It was also in the "widow maker" artery and if I had waited 6 months more, I probably would have had to had bypass surgery instead of angioplasty and a stent.

          Total cost out of pocket: $2000 (this was at the beginning of my new insurance cycle so I had a deductible I had to meet.)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            In march I went to a cardiologist and told him I wanted a heart cath because both of my brothers recently had heart problems and one is 14 years younger than me.
            The cardiologist scheduled me for a the cath the very next weekend. I went in and had it done and they found one blockage that they fixed. It was 70% blocked. It was also in the "widow maker" artery and if I had waited 6 months more, I probably would have had to had bypass surgery instead of angioplasty and a stent.

            Total cost out of pocket: $2000 (this was at the beginning of my new insurance cycle so I had a deductible I had to meet.)
            We paid nothing out of pocket. But we pay high taxes.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              We paid nothing out of pocket. But we pay high taxes.
              That is what most people who are for socialized medicine don't see. That you are still paying for your healthcare, and probably just as much, but it is called "taxes" instead of "premiums and deductibles"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                That is what most people who are for socialized medicine don't see. That you are still paying for your healthcare, and probably just as much, but it is called "taxes" instead of "premiums and deductibles"

                And we pay for things we don't want to pay for, like abortions and sex-changes, etc.

                And it doesn't cover vision and dental care. We have to buy private insurance for those things.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  We paid nothing out of pocket. But we pay high taxes.
                  And get poor service it looks like. with an example such as Mossy's you guys wonder why we don't want single payer system.
                  Last edited by RumTumTugger; 06-16-2018, 10:12 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                    And get poor service it looks like. with an example such as Mossy's you guys wonder why we don't want single payer system.
                    Yes, service is terrible.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      We paid nothing out of pocket. But we pay high taxes.
                      Exactly. Poor rural people are really voting against the sharp increase in taxes, which would be devastating to someone who can just barely pay the bills as it is. Better to take your chances and hope you don't need to go to the hospital, rather than pay out the nose whether you need a doctor or not. "Free" healthcare is expensive.

                      What needs to happen instead is for prices to come down on health services, but not to the point that no one wants to work in healthcare (which obviously would lead to shortages). Insurance should be affordable. If you have to penalise people for not buying something, you're charging too much.
                      Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Tom Frank is arrogant as a cultural elite for telling poor people who they should vote for. He attended probably the most elite public high school in the state so his authenticity is very questionable.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          mossy lives in a country with socialized medical care. Her and her husband depend on it. So she is not just giving examples, she is speaking from decades of experience. Expert testimony.
                          As has been noted in previous threads on the subject, the percentage of Canadians who dislike their healthcare system is around 15%. Mossrose is very much a minority in her views.

                          To give a similar example to her one, one of my best friends here had a heart problem detected and she had an operation to fix it the next day. Free of course.

                          One thing Mossrose doesn't seem to realise with her complaints about waiting is that a lot of people in the US have to wait forever, because they can't afford the procedures. In single payer countries the doctors do triage and process patients by severity of need, whereas the US does a wallet biopsy and if the size of the wallet is lacking the operation doesn't happen. Canada is a little unusual among single payer countries because the law there actually forbids people going private and paying to skip the queue in some circumstances. Here if you're rich and the wait time upsets you, you just pay a private hospital to do it.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SL
                            As has been noted in previous threads on the subject, the percentage of Canadians who dislike their healthcare system is around 15%. Mossrose is very much a minority in her views.
                            Link to those statistics, please.

                            Because every person that I've ever talked to about it hates the system as it is. The media is constantly reporting on the horrendous wait times.

                            So, until you show me stats, I don't believe you.


                            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                              Link to those statistics, please.

                              Because every person that I've ever talked to about it hates the system as it is. The media is constantly reporting on the horrendous wait times.

                              So, until you show me stats, I don't believe you.
                              Apparently over 86% of Canadians are happy with the public system. You're in a very small minority mossrose.

                              http://www.healthcare-now.org/blog/n...ic-health-care
                              Last edited by JimL; 06-16-2018, 02:42 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Anything from the government is sketchy. Get out there and talk to people away from "official" polls and government bull and you will hear a different story.


                                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                142 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                382 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                112 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                364 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X