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Cardinal Timothy Dolan on Trump’s immigration policy

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  • Cardinal Timothy Dolan on Trump’s immigration policy

    I took the time to listen to some very wise words from Timothy Dolan on Trump’s immigration policy. I guess this is something that most us will find interesting and agree with at least some parts of. I really like his very human and decent approach. Here is my transcription of a part that I particularly like:

    If they want to take a baby from the arms of its’ mother and separate the two, that’s wrong. I don’t care where you at, what time and what condition, that just goes against… You don’t have to read the Bible for that. That goes against human decency. That goes against human dignity. It goes against what is most sacred in the human person.
    And for those who have previously held that Romans 13 should be understood under the precondition that you should not obey the law if it contradicts the Bible, here is another interesting quote (again in my transcription):

    I don’t think we should obey a law that goes against what God intends. That you would take a baby, a child from his or her mom, I mean, that is just unjust, that’s unbiblical, that’s unamerican. There could be no Bible passage that would justify that.
    See the entire interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTDOeUXUmE

    (I have done my best with the transcriptions and apologize in advance for any errors.)
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

  • #2
    We take away the baby from a mother who is being sent to prison. After all, we wouldn't want the baby to live in a prison, would we? Or do think we should send babies to prison with their mothers?

    The illegal immigration situation isn't quite the same thing, but it isn't far off. Look at the prison case first, then the detention case.
    Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree Romans 13 isn't a blank check (after all, Acts 5:29 says that we must obey God rather than men) but I think you'd better be awfully sure that the action in process violates God's wall. Some examples are no brainers (like the Confessing Church in Nazi Germany). Having a strict immigration policy in itself does not constitute a violation. I'm not even sure that civil disobedience is justified here on the part of border agents (though Catholic border agents may end up in a pickle with the talk of withholding Communion from them). This is an issue that is probably going to be fixed legislatively fairly soon as most people seem to agree that splitting up families is a bad thing.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #4
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          You're making me agree with Catholics on morality. I feel dirty.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            You're making me agree with Catholics on morality. I feel dirty.
            Catholics also tend to believe in horrible things like charity.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Catholics also tend to believe in horrible things like charity.
              And bingo!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                Catholics also tend to believe in horrible things like charity.
                The spectrum of what charity is or can be is big enough that I don't commonly have much overlap with Catholics on those issues. I am a big fan of the Effective Altruism movement, which leans toward being mainly atheistic. I also tend to be extremely suspicious of religious charities as to whether they are being done with ulterior motives (trying to promote 'salvation', religious recruitment, imposing religious conditions or values in that social area etc). Catholic 'charities' seem to keep coming up in the news in bad ways in terms of worsening the AIDS crisis in Africa via insane Catholic doctrinal teachings, to refusing to let children be adopted from orphanages by same sex parents, to refusing to treat trans people in hospitals etc. Any brownie points Catholics get with me for being interested in doing charity in the first place, they seem to manage to rapidly set fire to by how they do their charities.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Any brownie points Catholics get with me for being interested in doing charity in the first place, they seem to manage to rapidly set fire to by how they do their charities.
                  I'm sure the pope lays awake at nights worrying about this.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                    We take away the baby from a mother who is being sent to prison. After all, we wouldn't want the baby to live in a prison, would we? Or do think we should send babies to prison with their mothers?

                    The illegal immigration situation isn't quite the same thing, but it isn't far off. Look at the prison case first, then the detention case.
                    Shh, they want to pretend that doesn't happen, so Trump-hate can continue!
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      Catholics also tend to believe in horrible things like charity.
                      Catholics are the idol-worshipping spawn of Satan, everyone knows that.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Catholics are the idol-worshipping spawn of Satan, everyone knows that.
                        Pretty much how I think of them, to be fair. Though idol-worshiping is rather far down my list of concerns.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Pretty much how I think of them, to be fair.
                          Same here, not that Satan exists of course.

                          Though idol-worshipping is rather far down my list of concerns
                          Oh it's near the top of the list for bible Christians.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So I guess we should just throw children in jail with their parents then?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              So I guess we should just throw children in jail with their parents then?
                              There are not a lot of other options for 'children' that aren't yet born.
                              Last edited by Roy; 06-18-2018, 09:45 AM.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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