Conservatives fighting back

[Mountain Man]

A parent always has to make a call. Sometimes, to escape one danger, they need to face another. I have no idea what most of these people are facing, or how many of them are facing it. I have no idea what their decision process is. And neither do you.

You're spinning the right-wing theme without a basis for making the judgments. That is why we have immigration judges.

Spin spin spin...

Yes or no, carpe: Did they break the law?

[Charles]

Murderers and adulterers, but way to miss the point, Chuck.

Furthermore, Jesus' words do not conflict with God's moral laws, you doofus; and as long as you're going to rely on the Bible for your argument, I'm still waiting for you to advance your position with a verse saying that those who break the law should not face the consequences. Well?

If parents don't want to be separated from their children for breaking the law then maybe they shouldn't break the law. Lawbreakers are separated from their kids all across the US every single day. Why should illegal immigrants be treated any differently than lawless American citizens?

You still used murderers as comparable which is below low. Jesus' word of course conflicts law and policies that lead to the consequence that innocent people are going through tremendous psychological pain. I feel quite sure you know this. You have a rather fundamentalistic idea of the law. It is as if you imagine that as soon as anything is law it is also just.

I find it rather surprising that someone who likes to identify himself as Christian has got such a poor understanding of the distinction between something being law and something being just. Christianity is more concerned with the latter. Once again we find ourselves in a situation in which very clear statements like love is the fulfilment of the law, do unto other, welcoming the stranger and all those other statements are supposed to mean nothing at all and certainly they should not prevent the extreme psychological suffering of innocent children according to MM. The law seems to trump even JesusÂ’ message if we follow this logic - if logic is even an appropriate word to use in this context.

And I find it completely stupid to pretend that politicians or, indeed, the president of the USA should not be held accountable for law and policies given the power he has to change it (which he eventually also did at too late a point in time though).

Need I remind you that the children did not break any laws? It seems so because you want me to give you a verse saying that those who break the law should not face the consequences. My main concern in this context is those who did not break any laws at all (not that I am not concerned about the parents who also find themselves in a horrible situation).

Those who were so occupied with making sure those who broke the law should face the consequences were not equally as concerned with making sure families could reunite again. It is possible some of these children will never see their parents again as a consequence of the law. I have no problem identifying the worst crime in this context. It is a crime against humity, dignity and Christianity. The fact that you support this crime shows that your idea about what Christianity is would be a joke if it was not that the consequences are so tragic.

[Charles]

Spin spin spin...

Yes or no, carpe: Did they break the law?

The children did not break the law. Those separating the children from their parents certainly broke the moral law, basic human decency and Christian ethics and they may have broken international conventions too. We shall wait and see.

[rogue06]

The children did not break the law. Those separating the children from their parents certainly broke the moral law, basic human decency and Christian ethics and they may have broken international conventions too. We shall wait and see.

The children of any law-breaker did not break the law themselves, but they are still separated from their parents (possibly for many years if their parents go to prison). If the children are with the parents they are also taken into custody as well but can be quickly released to a relative -- something hard to do if they are sneaking into the country illegally.

[Charles]

The children of any law-breaker did not break the law themselves, but they are still separated from their parents (possibly for many years if their parents go to prison). If the children are with the parents they are also taken into custody as well but can be quickly released to a relative -- something hard to do if they are sneaking into the country illegally.

In some other cases children of law breakers who are imprisoned are better of without their parents. If the parents are murderers or involved in other very serious crimes, I would think it is fair to say they are not good parents. However, that situation in no way compares to what has been going on when children were separated from their parents at the boarder.

As you know the policy has changed so children are no longer separated, so, after all, it was not that hard to do, separation did not have to happen and it was not a law that was written in stone. It was however written, followed and supported by hearts made of stone.

[Charles]

You realize Jesus is the same God as the God in the Old Testament, right? And the same one that will one day return and wipe out all sinners? God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He doesn't change.

And still it seems you guys are not listening to Him despite your claim to the opposite.

[JimL]

The thing is, congress has the power to change it all. They are the ones who make the laws. But they are refusing. Just like DACA.

Just like DACA? Apparently you forgot how the DACA negotiations fell apart. I'll remind you. The President agreed to a compromise, basically it was DACA for border security, the President was all for it, then he changed his mind overnight. Immigration is not the problem that Trump is telling you it is, immigration is way down and has been dropping for years, nor is it costing the U.S hundreds of billions a year as trump tells you, immigrants actually add 67 billion a year to the economy. Trump needs an issue that's all, the Trump tax cuts have lost favor with the public as we knew they would so Trump has to fire up the nutty base with some other issue and what worked better with that racist bunch than the immigration (non) issue.

[lilpixieofterror]

Just like DACA? Apparently you forgot how the DACA negotiations fell apart. I'll remind you. The President agreed to a compromise, basically it was DACA for border security, the President was all for it, then he changed his mind overnight. Immigration is not the problem that Trump is telling you it is, immigration is way down and has been dropping for years, nor is it costing the U.S hundreds of billions a year as trump tells you, immigrants actually add 67 billion a year to the economy. Trump needs an issue that's all, the Trump tax cuts have lost favor with the public as we knew they would so Trump has to fire up the nutty base with some other issue and what worked better with that racist bunch than the immigration (non) issue.

Too bad the problem isn’t immigration, but illegal immigration. Stop with the bait and switch game Jimmy.

BTW where are you getting these numbers from?

[demi-conservative]

Taunting to get a reaction IS trolling.

Demi doesn't want them angry, just pricking silly bubble of theirs.

And you got a reaction. Congrats.

Demi wants them to post here, not while they are very very dishonest though!

[Sparko]

You still used murderers as comparable which is below low. Jesus' word of course conflicts law and policies that lead to the consequence that innocent people are going through tremendous psychological pain. I feel quite sure you know this. You have a rather fundamentalistic idea of the law. It is as if you imagine that as soon as anything is law it is also just.

I find it rather surprising that someone who likes to identify himself as Christian has got such a poor understanding of the distinction between something being law and something being just. Christianity is more concerned with the latter. Once again we find ourselves in a situation in which very clear statements like love is the fulfilment of the law, do unto other, welcoming the stranger and all those other statements are supposed to mean nothing at all and certainly they should not prevent the extreme psychological suffering of innocent children according to MM. The law seems to trump even JesusÂ’ message if we follow this logic - if logic is even an appropriate word to use in this context.

And I find it completely stupid to pretend that politicians or, indeed, the president of the USA should not be held accountable for law and policies given the power he has to change it (which he eventually also did at too late a point in time though).

Need I remind you that the children did not break any laws? It seems so because you want me to give you a verse saying that those who break the law should not face the consequences. My main concern in this context is those who did not break any laws at all (not that I am not concerned about the parents who also find themselves in a horrible situation).

Those who were so occupied with making sure those who broke the law should face the consequences were not equally as concerned with making sure families could reunite again. It is possible some of these children will never see their parents again as a consequence of the law. I have no problem identifying the worst crime in this context. It is a crime against humity, dignity and Christianity. The fact that you support this crime shows that your idea about what Christianity is would be a joke if it was not that the consequences are so tragic.

Your manufactured outrage and condescending lecturing would mean more if you had any actual clue about the immigrant situation OR what Jesus taught and Christians believe.

[Sparko]

The children of any law-breaker did not break the law themselves, but they are still separated from their parents (possibly for many years if their parents go to prison). If the children are with the parents they are also taken into custody as well but can be quickly released to a relative -- something hard to do if they are sneaking into the country illegally.

but, but, but... they should just let parents go free if they commit a crime and have children! The children are innocent so the parents should be let go to care for them despite being criminals!

because, you know, outrage. and stuff.

[Sparko]

And still it seems you guys are not listening to Him despite your claim to the opposite.

You mean the God who told Moses to slay entire villages including children? That one?

[JimL]

but, but, but... they should just let parents go free if they commit a crime and have children! The children are innocent so the parents should be let go to care for them despite being criminals!

because, you know, outrage. and stuff.

How bout you stop acting as if you are simply ignorant. The parents are not criminals until and unless their cases, their asylum requests, are adjudicated. These people are being asked to drop their request for asylum in order to get their children back, in other words their children are being held as hostages, and then the parents after withdrawing their requests, at least in some instances, they are deported without their kids. The point though is that they, asylum seekers, are not criminals, so claiming as much in your argument, is, as usual, disingenuous

[Sparko]

How bout you stop acting as if you are simply ignorant. The parents are not criminals until and unless their cases, their asylum requests, are adjudicated. These people are being asked to drop their request for asylum in order to get their children back, in other words their children are being held as hostages, and then the parents after withdrawing their requests, at least in some instances, they are deported without their kids. The point though is that they, asylum seekers, are not criminals, so claiming as much in your argument, is, as usual, disingenuous

They are criminals by definition. They are ILLEGAL immigrants. Anyone coming here seeking asylum or immigration the proper way are not detained. They never even enter the country until they are approved. What you are talking about are people who sneak across the border and then when caught, try to get asylum. If they weren't caught, they would never have asked. But by the time they do, they are already criminals who entered the country. Those that do NOT ask for asylum are just returned to Mexico. If they ask for asylum after sneaking across, they are detained while being processed. There is no other way to do it under current law.

[JimL]

They are criminals by definition. They are ILLEGAL immigrants. Anyone coming here seeking asylum or immigration the proper way are not detained. They never even enter the country until they are approved. What you are talking about are people who sneak across the border and then when caught, try to get asylum. If they weren't caught, they would never have asked. But by the time they do, they are already criminals who entered the country. Those that do NOT ask for asylum are just returned to Mexico. If they ask for asylum after sneaking across, they are detained while being processed. There is no other way to do it under current law.

Wrong, unlawful presence is not a crime, and a defendent accused of improper entry is not a criminal until they are proven to have done so in a court of law. And yes there is another way to do it which is why this new method/policy put in place by Trump has brought about such outrage.