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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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The Strange Nature Of Dreams...

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    I never argued that only the act of actual illicit sex is a sin. Where did you get that? I was talking about the normal thinking of a sin but not committing it. Not all temptation is a sin.

    Lust is more than just an attraction to a woman. It is more than a thought. It is contemplating, enjoying and fantasizing about having sex with her. That is why it is a sin. And it entails an illicit desire for the woman, someone you are not married to and should not be having sex with. If you just see a woman who you are attracted to and don't start actively fantasizing about her, then it isn't a sin. You can control your thoughts.
    EGGzackly what I thought you were saying, and obviously Jimmy is incapable of understanding.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • Were my goofus and gallant realistic? I wouldn't know.
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        EGGzackly what I thought you were saying, and obviously Jimmy is incapable of understanding.
        He was going by my first posts in the thread where I questioned Leonhard that any thought about sin is a sin. I certainly don't think that.

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        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          He was going by my first posts in the thread where I questioned Leonhard that any thought about sin is a sin. I certainly don't think that.
          I know, I was going to go through the thread and build the case based on that, but I knew that...

          A) he's such an idiot he wouldn't get it
          2) even if he got it, he's such an idiot he'd just rant on anyway

          The boy needs serious help.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I know, I was going to go through the thread and build the case based on that, but I knew that...

            A) he's such an idiot he wouldn't get it
            2) even if he got it, he's such an idiot he'd just rant on anyway

            The boy needs serious help.
            Well at least he is actually going back and reading the first posts. Something other people don't bother with.

            My view is:
            1. Dreaming about something that is a sin isn't a sin because you are not consciously controlling your thoughts in a dream (usually)
            2. Just being tempted and thinking about a sin isn't a sin. But it can lead to a sin
            3. Actually and consciously fantasizing and dwelling on a sinful behavior can be a sin in itself. I don't know if it counts as the same degree as actually acting on it though. I don't think it would. but then all sin leads to death.

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Well at least he is actually going back and reading the first posts. Something other people don't bother with.

              My view is:
              1. Dreaming about something that is a sin isn't a sin because you are not consciously controlling your thoughts in a dream (usually)
              2. Just being tempted and thinking about a sin isn't a sin. But it can lead to a sin
              3. Actually and consciously fantasizing and dwelling on a sinful behavior can be a sin in itself. I don't know if it counts as the same degree as actually acting on it though. I don't think it would. but then all sin leads to death.
              The dreaming thing -- back to the topic at hand -- makes me think. My gramma lived with us when we were kids - her husband had died young - and she was a very godly woman. Always read the Bible to us, told us Bible stories, taught us songs, always a wonderful Christian attitude.

              When she got older, her mind 'snapped' or something, and she became a very bitter, angry person, cursing and demanding that we stop stealing her cigarettes (she never smoked). Fortunately, she didn't live very long in that state, but it always made me wonder what goes on in the mind.

              Dreaming could be an outlet for stuff we watch on TV, movies, things we hear or see that we don't need to hear or see.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                The dreaming thing -- back to the topic at hand -- makes me think. My gramma lived with us when we were kids - her husband had died young - and she was a very godly woman. Always read the Bible to us, told us Bible stories, taught us songs, always a wonderful Christian attitude.

                When she got older, her mind 'snapped' or something, and she became a very bitter, angry person, cursing and demanding that we stop stealing her cigarettes (she never smoked). Fortunately, she didn't live very long in that state, but it always made me wonder what goes on in the mind.

                Dreaming could be an outlet for stuff we watch on TV, movies, things we hear or see that we don't need to hear or see.
                My dad was the opposite. He was a distant, mean alcoholic who I can't remember ever telling me he loved me growing up. Then he had a stroke, became nice, stopped drinking, got saved, and told me he loved me every chance he could.

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                • I believe that in order to commit a sin, the act has to be a free act of the will. You also have to know that it is a sin or be able to know it.

                  Children and those with severe mental illness cannot be said to commit their acts with either full moral knowledge or with free acts. Therefore they don't sin, even if they do evil. At least their actions only constitute natural evil, its contrary to how things ought to be, but its not moral evil. Its not something that comes out of their hearts (as Jesus says).

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                  • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    I believe that in order to commit a sin, the act has to be a free act of the will. You also have to know that it is a sin or be able to know it.

                    Children and those with severe mental illness cannot be said to commit their acts with either full moral knowledge or with free acts. Therefore they don't sin, even if they do evil. At least their actions only constitute natural evil, its contrary to how things ought to be, but its not moral evil. Its not something that comes out of their hearts (as Jesus says).
                    Yep. I think that is the point of Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

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