Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 29 of 29

Thread: Phantom limbs and the Soul

  1. #21
    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Trinidad
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    635
    Amen (Given)
    104
    Amen (Received)
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Really? It's mostly caused by severing nerves then stimulating the severed end; the brain interprets the resulting signals as being caused by stimulation of the original nerve-endings. Similar to cutting a telephone wire and attaching a handset to the cut end to fake the source of a call.
    Ok. So there is sensation generated by the nerves in the area cut off ?
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

  2. #22
    tWebber Quantum Weirdness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Trinidad
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    635
    Amen (Given)
    104
    Amen (Received)
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Because that part still exists in your brain. See the diagram above. There is a part of your brain that corresponds with the nerves in your left hand. When the nerves in your left hand send signals to your brain, it goes to that area and you feel your hand. Your brain sends signals back and you can move your hand.

    When your hand gets cut off, the part of the brain that represents your left hand is still there. The nerves that ran down into your hand are still there. They are damaged and start firing signals to your brain, where you still will feel your hand.

    Your brain can still try to move your hand too, but it is not there to move. But they have started developing artificial limbs that read the signals your brain sends into those nerves and using them to move the artificial limb. And they are starting to figure out how to give you a sense of touch by having sensors in the limb stimulate the nerves that correspond with that part of the body that is missing. So the "phantom limb" feeling will actually be sensing the artificial limb and then move it.

    That's pretty neat, huh?

    Here is an article about a hand they are trying to develop:

    https://newatlas.com/mind-controlled...fingers/41886/

    And here is an article about an arm they are developing that gives the person a sense of their artificial arm, feeling where it is and such:

    https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/14/...-bionic-limbs/
    But the feeling isn't in your brain. The person with a phantom limb perceives* some sensation there. But to perceive* a sensation over there implies that you have a sensation over there. Thus, you have a sensation over there.

    And yes, the science is certainly interesting.

    *EDIT: By perceives, I mean subjectively experiences.
    Last edited by Quantum Weirdness; 06-29-2018 at 09:04 PM.
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

  3. #23
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Hillsborough, NC
    Faith
    Agnostic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,371
    Amen (Given)
    1575
    Amen (Received)
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Ok. So there is sensation generated by the nerves in the area cut off ?
    .

    Need clarification. The sensation of the missing limb is most likely based on the memories of the limb in the brain.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. #24
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    50,092
    Amen (Given)
    5022
    Amen (Received)
    22291
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Ok. I can accept what you wrote above as true. However, as you yourself say, "They can electrically stimulate parts of a person's brain and they will feel it in that part of their body." They don't feel it in their brain, but in that part of the body. That is, the feeling itself is in that part of the body. If you register the feeling in that part of the body, then you experience the feeling in that part of the body. If you experience the feeling in that part of the body, then the feeling is in that part of the body.
    No, all feeling from the body happens in the brain. Your brain interprets it as a feeling in the place where the nerve sent from. This is not hard, QW. Your brain can't feel anything of itself - if you stick a pin in your brain you won't say "ow someone stuck my brain". It just receives signals from the body.

  5. Amen Tassman amen'd this post.
  6. #25
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,744
    Amen (Given)
    696
    Amen (Received)
    1489
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    Ok. So there is sensation generated by the nerves in the area cut off ?
    No, there is sensation generated by the nerves that previously led to the area cut off, but are now truncated.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  7. #26
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,744
    Amen (Given)
    696
    Amen (Received)
    1489
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    But the feeling isn't in your brain. The person with a phantom limb perceives* some sensation there. But to perceive* a sensation over there implies that you have a sensation over there.
    Have you never watched TV?
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

    Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.

  8. #27
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    53,758
    Amen (Given)
    1143
    Amen (Received)
    19801
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Have you never watched TV?
    Venture Brothers reference?



    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

  9. #28
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Hillsborough, NC
    Faith
    Agnostic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,371
    Amen (Given)
    1575
    Amen (Received)
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
    But the feeling isn't in your brain. The person with a phantom limb perceives* some sensation there. But to perceive* a sensation over there implies that you have a sensation over there. Thus, you have a sensation over there.

    And yes, the science is certainly interesting.

    *EDIT: By perceives, I mean subjectively experiences.
    Actually no, perceptions in the brain do not have to originate in the limbs. Memories in many circumstances can initiate sensations within the brain.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  10. #29
    tWebber T-Shirt Ninja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Alabama
    Faith
    Secular Humanist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    260
    Amen (Given)
    149
    Amen (Received)
    131
    I have a different question for QW: what is your understanding of the soul's relationship to the body? It seems to me that you're saying that the soul "fills" the body. Hence, there being leftover soul that's still there when a limb is removed. Am I understanding you correctly?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •