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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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The More We Evolve, the Less We Need God

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post
    But you keep touting "social cohesion" -
    I'm not "touting" anything. The demonstrable fact is that we are a social species and must exist in community to survive.

    totalitarian systems like North Korea, Cuba or China are much more cohesive that liberal democracies.
    They are more 'conformist', which is not the same thing. The same applies to theocracies.

    I have no idea what you are talking about, in liberal democracies you will always have competing factions. To one degree or another. Democracy by it very nature lends itself to social disruption. So social cohesion is not and can not be the most important consideration, it isn't even to you when it concerns a cause you agree with. In those cases you are quite willing to overthrow the status quo and disrupt the social order.
    We devise systems of law and order to deal with these problems, which allow as much freedom as possible to all citizens without impinging on the rights of minorities.

    Again Tass, you are the one throwing around the word "world." Again, only a minority of countries have signed on to the DoHR.
    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights represents the values of most of the members of the United Nations...including your nation and mine.

    And it is our human nature that causes war.
    It is also our human nature to seek solutions.

    The only reason there is a decline, if there is, is because modern technology has helped meet our basic needs..
    There a a number of reasons.

    Take that away and watch..
    Take what away...an equitable distribution of wealth and resources? The Christian nation of the USA ranks very low in this area among comparable, more secular nations.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      Then you need to rephrase your question because I'm not understanding what you are asking.
      What is the definition of "morally right" that implies the acceptability of some people imposing their beliefs on other people?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
        What is the definition of "morally right" that implies the acceptability of some people imposing their beliefs on other people?
        No, it doesn't matter what the definition is, I'm only presenting how it works. The majority or those with the power define right and impose it. What else is there?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          No, it doesn't matter what the definition is, I'm only presenting how it works.
          You said "by definition." That means nothing if you don't have a definition, and so your entire statement is meaningless.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
            You said "by definition." That means nothing if you don't have a definition, and so your entire statement is meaningless.
            I said, Well no, if all chocolate-lovers had the power to impose their beliefs then by definition they would be morally right I'm saying that they define what is right or moral.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              No, it doesn't matter what the definition is, I'm only presenting how it works. The majority or those with the power define right and impose it. What else is there?
              So is it OK if those in power impose a theocracy based upon the Word of God?
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                So is it OK if those in power impose a theocracy based upon the Word of God?
                Of course, if that is what the majority or the powerful want. What else is there Tass?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Of course, if that is what the majority or the powerful want. What else is there Tass?
                  "What else" there is, is what most of the advanced countries already have, i.e. multicultural, multi-party systems of government.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    "What else" there is, is what most of the advanced countries already have, i.e. multicultural, multi-party systems of government.
                    Well that may be what the majority or the powerful prefer now, but that doesn't make it good or right.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      I said, Well no, if all chocolate-lovers had the power to impose their beliefs then by definition they would be morally right I'm saying that they define what is right or moral.
                      So, people never do anything that they don't think is right? Unless that's what you really think, you're not being consistent.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Well that may be what the majority or the powerful prefer now, but that doesn't make it good or right.
                        I was about to ask you "What would?" but I'd like to try an alternative.

                        Suppose you say, "X would make it good," and X can be whatever works for you. Why should I take your word for it that X would make it good?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                          So, people never do anything that they don't think is right? Unless that's what you really think, you're not being consistent.
                          Doug, of course people can and do what they don't think is right, but I'm not sure how that bears on the question. And that doesn't mean that the Nazis didn't see the eradication of the Jewish population as a moral good. They did.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                            I was about to ask you "What would?" but I'd like to try an alternative.

                            Suppose you say, "X would make it good," and X can be whatever works for you. Why should I take your word for it that X would make it good?
                            That is the point isn't it. There is no objective standard that you could appeal to, to argue that X isn't good. We are back to personal or collective preference. Though I get the feeling that I'm still missing your point.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Doug, of course people can and do what they don't think is right, but I'm not sure how that bears on the question.
                              It bears on the question of whether, if they do just whatever they want to do, they will automatically define it to be right.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                That is the point isn't it.
                                No, it is not. My point in asking you a question was to find out how you would answer it. You did not answer my question.

                                Comment

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