Originally posted by Doug Shaver
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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The More We Evolve, the Less We Need God
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut what is there in your world but the natural? If the Communist Chinese believe it is a moral good to murder millions of dissenters, and we don't,
where is the objective rule or standard that decides between these two opinions?
Originally posted by seer View PostUntil we let fly thousands of those nukes...Thanks to science we finally have the ability to pretty much decimate our own race.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat one man calls evil another man calls good, if there is no objective standard to decide between the two claims then the terms evil or good become insignificant. No more than mere preference like I said earlier. I like vanilla you like chocolate.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostSuppose it were a fact that all chocolate-lovers believed that all vanilla-lovers should be murdered. Would that fact, in your opinion, be irrelevant to any discussion about whether it was rational to prefer chocolate over vanilla?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNonsense! The Chinese “moral good” is the same as ours, i.e. the maintenance of social order. It’s their methodology where we disagree. Ideological totalitarianism, either religious or secular, never works well.
Thanks to our moral values we have the ability the restrain our violent impulses.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI'm not sure what you mean by not working well.
They certainly maintain social cohesion in China and are becoming an economic and military world power.
So far...Last edited by Tassman; 07-16-2018, 11:57 PM.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostChina and Russia did as much when both countries were absolute monarchies. But, as has happened in Vietnam and Cuba, both are moving towards more open systems of government. This is a better, more sustainable way to maintain social cohesion. At least you now acknowledge the need for social cohesion in a social species such as us.
A nuclear holocaust is not inevitable, most recognise the importance of preserving civilisation. As we move further away from a tribal mentality of nation against nation, religion against religion, to the more universal values as per the Declaration of Human Rights the better chance we have to survive.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThe point is that totalitarianism is not immoral in your world,
and in our past debates you made clear that you would have no problem disrupting social cohesion if it is for a leftist cause you agree with.
Oh please with thing, the majority of countries have not even signed on, and many of the countries that did violate it.
As far as a nuclear holocaust not being inevitable, we will see, but if human history is any guide I am not hopeful...“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostBy what definition?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostTotalitarianism is not immoral per se it's just not the best way to achieve stable social cohesion.
Your version of "disrupting social cohesion" was denying Cons the right to discriminate against minority groups.
the Declaration of Human Rights was adopted by the the United Nations General Assembly of which your country and mine are signatories. It is an ideal to which the civilised world aspires.
Not at all. According to Steven Pinker's 'The Better Angels of Our Nature", international violence has declined dramatically over the millennia.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is debatable. Liberal democracies have any number of internal factions that are often at odds causing much social unrest. Of course the majority could just run roughshod over the minority, and that would just be another form of totalitarianism.
But these things do cause social unrest. And if social cohesion is the goal then things that upset it (whether you agree with them or not) are evil.
I have no idea what you mean by the world. All the countries that did not sign? Communist countries? Muslim countries?
Pinker's research has nothing to do with whether we will one day use nukes or not. Especially with the rise of Islam and Communist China. Technology makes starvation less of a factor, and more of our basic needs are met, but human nature has not changed.
Knock out those modern conveniences and see how fast we revert to our more base nature.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAs Churchill wisely said: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."
Not "evil", just unhelpful when certain factions or belief systems demand special priviliges over and above everyone else.
Most countries are members of the United Nations and those that are not are observers. As far as our two countries are concerned we are signatories to the Declaration of Human Rights which was adopted by the the United Nations General Assembly.
It's our "human nature" that has kept us safe so far despite the rise of different ideologies....either religious or political.
It's our "base nature", i.e. our essential nature, that has resulted in violence in the world dramatically declining in both the long term and in the short term. I reject your religious notion of the 'total depravity' of Man.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell if the majority does not define right what does? The minority?
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostThat does not answer my question - - unless you are taking the position that whatever a majority says is morally right actually is morally right. If that is your position, then just say so and I'll work with it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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