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The More We Evolve, the Less We Need God

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  • #31
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    I see Tasman didn’t read chapter 17. The transfiguration is commonly cited as being what Jesus was talking about.
    No matter what scripture says or what anybody who's actually studied it says, it won't make sense to Tass and his buddies.

    I find myself less and less interested in presenting it to them. They're blinded by their sin.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      That much I know. But it is my impression that "god of the gaps" was the very foundation of theistic beliefs, so there are still widespread vestiges of these roots.
      And views change with introduction of new evidence. ‘God of the gaps’ isn’t a critical theory that theism needs to be true, so it’s end hardly would spell the end of theism.

      An example is the argument from first causes. At the end of the day, we really cannot say anything about what lies "before" or "outside" the known universe, because our knowledge of "how stuff works" is necessarily limited to what lies within the universe. We don't even know if the words "before" and "outside" have any meaning in that context. Yet it does not stop people from using these arguments as a basis for postulating the existence of god. That is either a very poor form of argumentation, or it is an appeal to the "god of the gaps." (i.e., we do not know any other explanation, so god must have done it).
      And yet scientist have no better explanation to the first cause because nobody knows how things worked before Plank Time. So the reality is there is plenty of gaps still since our understanding of the universe is far from complete.,
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Yeah - that's true. Early Christians believed the end-times were quite near at hand. Since then, we have had leader after leader prophesying end times. And yet, here we are.

        Perhaps the end-times so long anticipated is actually the end of Christianity? I doubt that will happen in my lifetime, and I suspect every existing religion will always have some adherents. After all, we still have flat-earthers and young-earthers. We also have those who worship the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian gods. I suspect every belief ever conceived exists somewhere on Earth today.
        He wasn't talking about the end-times. He was talking about apostasy.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          Well, it's mine.

          This I know.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            And views change with introduction of new evidence. ‘God of the gaps’ isn’t a critical theory that theism needs to be true, so it’s end hardly would spell the end of theism.
            Correct. It will only be the end of theism (or that aspect of theism) for those who rest their beliefs on "god of the gaps" approaches. My impression is that this is still fairly widespread.

            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            And yet scientist have no better explanation to the first cause because nobody knows how things worked before Plank Time. So the reality is there is plenty of gaps still since our understanding of the universe is far from complete.,
            Exactly! And filling those gaps with "it must have been god" is a classic "god of the gaps" approach. That was my point.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              He wasn't talking about the end-times. He was talking about apostasy.
              Who is "he?"


              ETA: Oh..I think you mean Jedidiah. Yeah, that was clear when he responded. Ironically, I think that technically means people like me!
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Who is "he?"


                ETA: Oh..I think you mean Jedidiah. Yeah, that was clear when he responded. Ironically, I think that technically means people like me!
                It does indeed. You think you don't need God any more.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  It does indeed. You think you don't need God any more.
                  Correction - I think there IS no god. It's not the same thing. My "need" has nothing to do with it.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Correct. It will only be the end of theism (or that aspect of theism) for those who rest their beliefs on "god of the gaps" approaches. My impression is that this is still fairly widespread.



                    Exactly! And filling those gaps with "it must have been god" is a classic "god of the gaps" approach. That was my point.
                    The problem enters when you see there’s still quite a few gaps and the God of the gaps theory is still far from dead and the only way to close it is to become God since you would need to know everything past, present, and future. As I’ve heard before though, scientist make for some pretty lousy philosophers.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      No matter what scripture says or what anybody who's actually studied it says, it won't make sense to Tass and his buddies.

                      I find myself less and less interested in presenting it to them. They're blinded by their sin.
                      One wouldn’t need to “study it” if what Jesus said in Matthew 16:28 had actually come about. His words: "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" are utterly unambiguous. If this had happened as he said it would, one would not require the various tortuous rationalisations of why it didn’t happen.

                      But let’s not put it down to Jesus being just plain wrong and blame the “sin” of those who don’t believe this nonsense.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        The problem enters when you see there’s still quite a few gaps and the God of the gaps theory is still far from dead and the only way to close it is to become God since you would need to know everything past, present, and future. As I’ve heard before though, scientist make for some pretty lousy philosophers.
                        Of course there are gaps. It may be there will always BE gaps. "God of the gaps" is when people replace an "I don't know" with "god did it." As we learn more, the pattern becomes fairly clear. Gaps previously filled by "god did it" are replaced with "oh, so THAT's how it works." Looking back over history, we consistently see "god did it" replaced with a scientific explanation; we never see the reverse. So, as people learn more, we learn that putting "god did it" in the gap is an unnecessary step. We can merely say "we don't know" until such time as we do know, whenever and if ever that time comes.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Correction - I think there IS no god. It's not the same thing. My "need" has nothing to do with it.
                          at one time when you were a Christian you needed God. Now that you are an atheist you think you don't need him.

                          But in fact, you need him now, more than ever.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            at one time when you were a Christian you needed God. Now that you are an atheist you think you don't need him.

                            But in fact, you need him now, more than ever.
                            I think it often goes over their heads, we really want them to repent and be in heaven with us. Eternity with Carp! And Tass, and Jim L, even Star!
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              At one time when you were a Christian you needed God.
                              I believed I needed god.

                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Now that you are an atheist you think you don't need him.
                              Again, it has nothing to do with need. I believe there IS no god. There are many things I once believed a god was the source of that I still need. I simply do not believe that god exists to provide them.

                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              But in fact, you need him now, more than ever.
                              Your opinion is duly noted...
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                I think it often goes over their heads, we really want them to repent and be in heaven with us. Eternity with Carp! And Tass, and Jim L, even Star!
                                Yeah theologyweb in heaven would be boring without them.

                                Comment

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