Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Three irrefutable miracles.
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Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostActually, I had to look it up - never had a strong grounding in Reformation apologetics, or Reformed theology. I remembered we had a member on Tweb long, long ago who went by "5solas".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by 37818 View Post1) Creation (the natural revelation).
2) Special revelation of Holy Scripture (the 66 book Bible).
3) Salvation (By God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone).
Mere denial does not refute anything.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWhat is the objective basis behind the assertions that would make them more than mere assertions.
That there is actually a 66 book Bible which is cited to be written word of God.
And there are Christians who know God through faith in His Christ who died for sins of mankind and rose from the dead to justify that faith.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThere are alternative explanations for the "miracles" you've listed, therefore there are possible refutations.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThe first and second 'solas' are mutually exclusive (and aren't you missing a couple? I thought there were 5, not 3).. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWell give them.The universe being the evidence of creation.
That there is actually a 66 book Bible which is cited to be written word of God.
And there are Christians who know God through faith in His Christ who died for sins of mankind and rose from the dead to justify that faith“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe universe may itself be eternal and self-generating.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostI have seen no evidence for their occurrence except assertions that they occurred.
The 66 book Bible's claims are not in evidence?
That there are professing Christians who profess to know God are not in evidence?
What definitively refutes the universe from being evidence of creation?
What definitively refutes the 66 book Bible from being God's written word?
What definitively shows that all Christians knowing God are delusional?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSaying that god-did-it is not an explanation. The universe may itself be eternal and self-generating. You don’t know it’s not.
Claiming these books to be the “written word of God” is not substantiated by any evidence. This is a faith-belief. The more obvious explanation is that they were written by men with an agenda.
So they say. I say they are deluded. Dying and rising god-men sounds more like mythology to me.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThis is so cute.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostAn number of things here. You deny God is God.
There is only evidence that the known universe has an apparent beginning.
And Christians know God.
A number of things with this. For one, there is no definitive evidence that the 66 book Bible is not what it says to be.
Everyone has some kind of faith-belief as you are calling it. Your atheism is a faith-belief in what you call the lack of substantiated evidence. [Again, you deny God is God.] And I am not aware that any who affirms the 66 book Bible to be the written word of God also denies that the men used to write it had some kind of an agenda.
How do we prove their delusion?“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Whether any fact F is evidence for a proposition P depends on the probability that F could obtain if P were false. That probability is not determined by the mere assertion that F is evidence for P.
Originally posted by 37818 View PostSo the universe is not in evidence?
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe 66 book Bible's claims are not in evidence?
Originally posted by 37818 View PostThat there are professing Christians who profess to know God are not in evidence?
Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat definitively refutes the 66 book Bible from being God's written word?
Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhat definitively shows that all Christians knowing God are delusional?
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