Dem leader Joe Crowley loses primary

[Starlight]

From your link:

As socialists, democratic socialists believe that the systemic issues of capitalism can only be solved by replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system—i.e. by replacing private ownership with social ownership of the means of production.



Now tell me which countries fit this and are working?

No countries that lean democratic socialist have done the underlined thing, so sample size is zero.

Some of the closest examples would be Scandinavia having very strong labor unions, Germany requiring worker representation on the boards of companies, the UK requiring companies to not simply maximize profit but to instead adhere to a list of social responsibilities, in parts of Italy and Spain there are extremely strong Cooperative movements but those aren't nation-wide in extent. In the EU parliament the Democratic Socialists (S&D) is the 2nd-largest party and has long been in governing coalition with the largest right-wing party (EPP, roughly equivalent to US Democrats in policy positions), so you could say the entire EU is half run by Democratic Socialists.

What's confusing you, I think, is that historically nearly all countries that adopted any kind of remotely socialist economic system also happened to have extremely authoritarian political systems. e.g. USSR, Mao's China etc. Those countries had plenty of problems, but when you look at the details of it, those problems can nearly all be ascribed to their extremely authoritarian political systems. The lesson to learn from them, just like the lesson we can learn from Hitler or Mussolini or any other dictator in history is extremely authoritarian political systems are bad. Democracy is much better. Respecting human rights is much better. So authoritarianism bad, democracy and human rights good.

But what about the economic system? That's not remotely so clear cut. When you actually dig down and look at the economies of some of these communist countries, well they're actually often pretty decent. 'Communist' China is today one of the world's leading economies. The USSR went from one of the poorest countries full of peasant farmers through rapid communist development that led it to rivaling the long-established US economy. And while these socialist economies have sometimes had their crashes, it's not like crashes aren't a thing in capitalist economies.

So what Democratic Socialism aims to do is to focus on democracy and human rights and anti-authoritarianism in politics and work toward some socialist type economic systems in the economic sphere. It's a combination that hasn't really been tried, but all existing empirical data suggests it ought to be the best system, and the countries that are closest to that (Scandinavia etc) are the happiest and most successful countries today in the world.

[seer]

But what about the economic system? That's not remotely so clear cut. When you actually dig down and look at the economies of some of these communist countries, well they're actually often pretty decent. 'Communist' China is today one of the world's leading economies. The USSR went from one of the poorest countries full of peasant farmers through rapid communist development that led it to rivaling the long-established US economy. And while these socialist economies have sometimes had their crashes, it's not like crashes aren't a thing in capitalist economies.

That is just nonsense Star, the Soviet Union had chronic food shortages, they couldn't even made a car that could be exported. And look at China today, or Vietnam, they are moving as fast as they can towards Capitalism. North Korea will be next. Collectives look good on paper but in reality they don't work. There are fewer choices, little incentive to excel.

So what Democratic Socialism aims to do is to focus on democracy and human rights and anti-authoritarianism in politics and work toward some socialist type economic systems in the economic sphere. It's a combination that hasn't really been tried, but all existing empirical data suggests it ought to be the best system, and the countries that are closest to that (Scandinavia etc) are the happiest and most successful countries today in the world.

Right, except these these countries are Capitalistic at bottom. And why don't you bring up other welfare states like Italy or France or Venezuela that are doing terrible?

[rogue06]

I'm sorry you find words and terms confusing. I get that the term "Democratic Socialist" is a bit confusing as it's slightly different in a nuanced way to "Social Democrat" and very very different to "Socialist" plus "(alleged) democracy" which it's the conscious opposite of in many ways.

The word "Progressive" seems to be becoming more used to replace the confusingly-termed "Democratic Socialist". In the EU parliament the bloc of Democratic Socialists is known as the "Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats".

So the No True Scotsman fallacy it is.

Btw, you were the one who wanted "examples of Democratic Socialist countries" and are now seeking to change that for your convenience.

[Cow Poke]

The winner was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a 28 yr old latina who had been endorsed by Bernie Sanders...

Her nuttiness is being exposed....

Socialist Darling Ocasio-Cortz Trashes Israel, Calls Them “Occupiers” of Palestine (VIDEO)

This weekend Ocasio Cortez held an interview with Firing Line with Margaret Hoover on PBS.

In typical Socialists fashion Ocasio-Cortez unloaded on Israel:

Ocasio-Cortez: “I also think that what people are starting to see at least with the occupation of Palestine is the increasing crisis of humanitarian condition. And that to me is where I tend to come from on this issue.”

When pressed on what she meant she struggled to give an answer and then admitted she does not know what she is talking about.

"oh, um.... [pause] I think it, what I meant is, like the, the settlements that are increasing in some of these areas and places where, um, where Palestinians are [unintelligible] difficulty in access to, uh, their housing and homes...."

and... "[nervous laughter] I am not the expert on geopolitics on this issue...."

[seer]

Is Feinstein next? That would be a big deal!

California Democratic Party leaders took a step to the left Saturday night, endorsing liberal state lawmaker Kevin de León for Senate in a stinging rebuke of Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

De León’s victory reflected the increasing strength of the state party’s liberal activist core, which was energized by the election of Republican Donald Trump as president.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...714-story.html

[One Bad Pig]

Is Feinstein next? That would be a big deal!

Woah, she's geting up there....

[seer]

Woah, she's geting up there....

Up where? Are you an ageist too!

[Cow Poke]

Is Feinstein next? That would be a big deal!

She's getting hit pretty hard, and the Democrats are reaping what they sewed.

[One Bad Pig]

Up where? Are you an ageist too!

Father Time is undefeated.

Feinstein's problems aren't something I'd get excited over; it's not like she has anything remotely like any Republican opposition, and all her loss would do is make the Senate even more partisan.

[seer]

Father Time is undefeated.

Feinstein's problems aren't something I'd get excited over; it's not like she has anything remotely like any Republican opposition, and all her loss would do is make the Senate even more partisan.

Actually she has been somewhat conservative, in some areas, over the years.

[Cow Poke]

Actually she has been somewhat conservative, in some areas, over the years.

I think she really tries to be principled, and doesn't always tow the party line.

[Leonhard]

We've seen just how much hate is in the typical liberal heart here after the last election. It's been a year and a half, and there is still much wailing and gnashing of teeth. It makes the Republican reaction to Obama's presidency look like welcoming him with open arms.

Part of the reason I took a break from this forum was because the conservative triumphantism was a bit thick.

[Leonhard]

Democratic socialism is just the rabble majority dominating and controlling the minority. High taxation, controlling the means of production and the distribution of goods is totalitarian in nature - and has to be to work.

What's totalitarian about Denmark? Its cheaper to start a company in Denmark than in the US. In your country you have to pay for health insurance and all other stuff like that.

Right, except these these countries are Capitalistic at bottom.

Its called the Nordic Model. Its basically free market capitalism, with the usual restraints, and then a comprehensive welfare system and collective bargaining.

[One Bad Pig]

Part of the reason I took a break from this forum was because the conservative triumphantism was a bit thick.

I'd think putting demi on ignore would fix 9/10 of that.

[Cow Poke]

I'd think putting demi on ignore would fix 9/10 of that.

This is really about me, isn't it?