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Thread: Does the Trinity constitute three separate consciousnesses?

  1. #21
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818
    God is one Spirit (John 4:24)
    That verse mentions God (presumably the Father) being a Spirit, and it also mentions being worshipped in spirit (presumably referring to the Holy Spirit). So I would say that makes at least two spirits.

    Also:

    Luke 23:46
    And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


    So there's another, too.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    That verse mentions God (presumably the Father) being a Spirit, and it also mentions being worshipped in spirit (presumably referring to the Holy Spirit). So I would say that makes at least two spirits.

    Also:

    Luke 23:46
    And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


    So there's another, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    God is one Spirit (John 4:24) and we know Him as three distinct Persons (Romans 8:9, 16).
    Verse 9, ". . . the Spirit of God . . . _ . . .the Spirit of Christ, . . . " Verse 16, " The Spirit Itself . . . ."

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    "But the boldest analogy of all is used by Jesus, who prays for believers 'that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us' (John 17:21).

    Even though the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have perfect and eternal unity, yet they remain distinct persons. In the same way, even though we shall someday attain perfect unity with other believers and with Christ, yet we shall forever remain distinct persons as well, with our own individual gifts, abilities, interests, responsibilities, circles of personal relationships, preferences, and desires."

    Wayne A. Grudem, Systematic Theology, 844.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I don't understand what point you are trying to make.
    The three Persons who are the one and the same God are of the same substance (John 4:24), to use the term. It is the Person of the Holy Spirit who is the reason they are the one and the same God.

    In Romans 8:9 refers to God the Father as the "Spirit of God," and the Son as the "Spirit of Christ," verse 16 the Spirit as Himself.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    The verse you cited from Romans is just saying that the Father and the Son both have control over the Spirit. The phrase "Spirit of Christ" is expressing ownership, or origin. It is saying: Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit, so if you are one of Jesus's people then you have the Spirit. It isn't saying that the Spirit is equivalent to either the Son, or the Father. Nor is it denying that the Father and the Son have their own spirits.

    The other verse you are citing, John 4:24, is just saying that the Father is a spirit, and in order to worship him properly we need to use a spirit specifically the Holy Spirit to connect us to him. It isn't saying that the Holy Spirit and the Father are the same thing.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    The verse you cited from Romans is just saying that the Father and the Son both have control over the Spirit. The phrase "Spirit of Christ" is expressing ownership, or origin. It is saying: Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit, so if you are one of Jesus's people then you have the Spirit. It isn't saying that the Spirit is equivalent to either the Son, or the Father. Nor is it denying that the Father and the Son have their own spirits.

    The other verse you are citing, John 4:24, is just saying that the Father is a spirit, and in order to worship him properly we need to use a spirit specifically the Holy Spirit to connect us to him. It isn't saying that the Holy Spirit and the Father are the same thing.
    God is a Spirit (John 4:24). That the Father, Son of God and the person of the Holy Spirit are God would mean that they are that Spirit (John 4:24).
    Last edited by 37818; 07-11-2018 at 01:56 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    In context, "God" there refers to the Father. Jesus wasn't a "spirit," but a man.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    In context, "God" there refers to the Father. Jesus wasn't a "spirit," but a man.
    And Jesus is still a man (1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews13:8).

    " . . . for I am God, and not man; the Holy One . . . ." God to Hosah, Hosah 11:9.

    When Jesus said, "God is a Spirit," He did not say "'The Father' is a Spirit." Limiting that to the Person of His Father. (John 5:18)

    ". . . He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. . . ." -- John 3:13.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  10. #30
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    "God" is frequently used in the New Testament to refer to the Father specifically. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18). Besides, it wouldn't have made sense in context to say "the Father," because God wasn't the Father of the Samaritans. "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." (Isaiah 63:16). Use some common sense, man. Your understanding of the Trinity seems pretty weak. Saying that Jesus is the same as the Holy Spirit is heresy.

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