Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37

Thread: Does the Trinity constitute three separate consciousnesses?

  1. #11
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    60,561
    Amen (Given)
    13076
    Amen (Received)
    27647
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I don't see how there could be anything but three consciousnesses(sp?) without making nonsense of the concept of personhood.
    I hereby offer my yesnesses.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #12
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Triangle
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11,063
    Amen (Given)
    1824
    Amen (Received)
    4841
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I don't see how there could be anything but three consciousnesses(sp?) without making nonsense of the concept of personhood.
    The concept of kenosis is relevant here. While in the flesh, Jesus did not know when he would return, but said that God the Father did know. Clearly there is a distinction.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  3. Amen Chrawnus amen'd this post.
  4. #13
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    So. California
    Faith
    Nontraditional Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,222
    Amen (Given)
    830
    Amen (Received)
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The concept of kenosis is relevant here. While in the flesh, Jesus did not know when he would return, but said that God the Father did know. Clearly there is a distinction.
    Some trinitarians such as Dr Walter Martin takes the position that the second Person of the Trinity did not become the Son until His incarnation (Luke 1:35; Mark 13:32 [Acts 1:7]). Dr Martin held that the concept of the eternal Son was not biblical. [I disagree with Dr. Martin on the concept of the eternal Son, though like the term Trinity does not occur in the Bible.]
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  5. #14
    Undergraduate Physiocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    15
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I don't see how there could be anything but three consciousnesses(sp?) without making nonsense of the concept of personhood.
    Well, classical theists I have come across argue that the term person here is a technical one which doesn't relate to what we normally understand by person. Now to what they use it mean, all I can gather is that there is Father, Son and Spirit, they aren't each but one and they only differences are the difference of procession as laid out in the OP

  6. #15
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    TN
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,260
    Amen (Given)
    416
    Amen (Received)
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by Physiocrat
    Well, classical theists I have come across argue that the term person here is a technical one which doesn't relate to what we normally understand by person. Now to what they use it mean, all I can gather is that there is Father, Son and Spirit, they aren't each but one and they only differences are the difference of procession as laid out in the OP
    In my opinion, people who teach that are severely undermining the humanity of Jesus Christ.

  7. #16
    Undergraduate Physiocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    15
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    In my opinion, people who teach that are severely undermining the humanity of Jesus Christ.
    Well to be fair they'd make a big difference between the pre and post-incarnate Son. The question though would be how do they reconcile the single mind of God and Jesus' mind especially with respect to the Garden of Gethsemane which seems to indicate two wills

  8. #17
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Finland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,071
    Amen (Given)
    5304
    Amen (Received)
    3686
    Quote Originally Posted by Physiocrat View Post
    Well, classical theists I have come across argue that the term person here is a technical one which doesn't relate to what we normally understand by person. Now to what they use it mean, all I can gather is that there is Father, Son and Spirit, they aren't each but one and they only differences are the difference of procession as laid out in the OP
    Quote Originally Posted by Physiocrat View Post
    Well to be fair they'd make a big difference between the pre and post-incarnate Son. The question though would be how do they reconcile the single mind of God and Jesus' mind especially with respect to the Garden of Gethsemane which seems to indicate two wills
    I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding something when it comes to what classical theists believe. If we're to go by your understanding of what they believe we'd pretty much have to condemn every classical theist as modalists/sabellianists. If there is only one consciousness in God then it would necessarily follow that Father, Son and Spirit are just separate roles that this one consciousness is playing.

  9. #18
    Undergraduate Physiocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    15
    Amen (Given)
    1
    Amen (Received)
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding something when it comes to what classical theists believe. If we're to go by your understanding of what they believe we'd pretty much have to condemn every classical theist as modalists/sabellianists. If there is only one consciousness in God then it would necessarily follow that Father, Son and Spirit are just separate roles that this one consciousness is playing.
    I think I am being fair to those who hold divine simplicity which is what I take to be classical theism. God is pure act, his existence is his essence. In him there are no parts.

    Here's a discussion on the nature of the trinity which I think shows I'm being fair-


    https://youtu.be/PMYM8ZRLabM

  10. #19
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northern Hemisphere
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    9,625
    Amen (Given)
    5689
    Amen (Received)
    1845
    Quote Originally Posted by Physiocrat View Post
    Well to be fair they'd make a big difference between the pre and post-incarnate Son. The question though would be how do they reconcile the single mind of God and Jesus' mind especially with respect to the Garden of Gethsemane which seems to indicate two wills
    Well, Jesus had a human body complete with human brain. So, He had to go against the survival instinct that does not want to die.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  11. #20
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    So. California
    Faith
    Nontraditional Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,222
    Amen (Given)
    830
    Amen (Received)
    456
    God is one Spirit (John 4:24) and we know Him as three distinct Persons (Romans 8:9, 16).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •