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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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Does the Trinity constitute three separate consciousnesses?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
    "God" is frequently used in the New Testament to refer to the Father specifically. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18). Besides, it wouldn't have made sense in context to say "the Father," because God wasn't the Father of the Samaritans. "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." (Isaiah 63:16). Use some common sense, man. Your understanding of the Trinity seems pretty weak. Saying that Jesus is the same as the Holy Spirit is heresy.
    God is a Spirit. Unless the Son of God is also that Spirit He would never be God. The name from everlasting is YHWH (John 8:24; 2 John 9; 1 John 5:12; Romans 8:9).
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Physiocrat View Post
      My understanding of Classical Theism is that the only distinction in the Trinity is that of procession. The Son proceeds from the Father and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. And that is that. It seems to me far more plausible for there to be be three separate consciousnesses and not just procession as it would make far more sense on the incarnation for one thing.

      Are there any problems with such a view? I understand the philosophical objections from those who argue that God must be simple otherwise he couldn't be the first cause etc but is there any particular Biblical issues or are they inextricably linked to the philosophical objections to there being three separate consciousnesses?
      I suspect that consciousness is something animals have, as a result of having perishable bodies; but not something beings who are pure spirits, such as angels or God, have. I think God is “beyond” being conscious, a bit as men, in having consciousness, are beyond subatomic particles. Except that God is far more different from men even than that.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Physiocrat View Post
        My understanding of Classical Theism is that the only distinction in the Trinity is that of procession. The Son proceeds from the Father and the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. And that is that. It seems to me far more plausible for there to be be three separate consciousnesses and not just procession as it would make far more sense on the incarnation for one thing.

        Are there any problems with such a view? I understand the philosophical objections from those who argue that God must be simple otherwise he couldn't be the first cause etc but is there any particular Biblical issues or are they inextricably linked to the philosophical objections to there being three separate consciousnesses?
        I suspect that consciousness is something animals have, as a result of having perishable bodies; but not something beings who are pure spirits, such as angels or God, have. I think God is “beyond” being conscious, a bit as men, in having consciousness, are beyond subatomic particles. Except that God is far more different from men even than that.

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        • #34
          Yes... There is a glorified man seated at God's right hand fulfilling God's Word in the beginning... that His image would have dominion. Further, if those who believe are conformed to His image would they not have dominion as well? "...if you love me you will obey my commands, and whatever you ask in my name I will do..." (paraphrasing cuz I'm lazy today).

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          • #35
            Edited by a Moderator

            Moderated By: rogue06


            This area is not one of those you can participate in. Please read the guidelines for each section. Thanks.

            ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
            Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

            Last edited by rogue06; 03-03-2019, 04:19 PM.

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            • #36
              Apparently open theism isn't allowed here now..

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              • #37
                Originally posted by JohnHermes View Post
                Apparently open theism isn't allowed here now..
                I'm an Open Theist and I'm on Staff so you are incorrect. You are not allowed to post in this area as you are not "orthodox" Christian. You will need to take the discussion to another area you are allowed to post in. Comparative Religions 101 maybe?
                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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