Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Book Plunge: Protestants and Catholics

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Book Plunge: Protestants and Catholics

    What's the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism?

    The link can be found here.

    -----

    What do I think of Peter Toon's book published by Servant Books? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Discussions about Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Protestantism was never something I really wanted to get into. I have been a subscriber of Mere Christianity for several years and been one wanting to look at defending the essentials. What changed is when my wife started asking questions and I realized if she's doing this, I need to start looking into this. I asked a friend fluent on the issues for a good book on the topic and was recommended Peter Toon's book.

    Toon writes from a Protestant perspective, but his writing is friendly and he shows problems each side has with the other and ways that both could handle things better. There is no hint of anything that says that Catholics are an apostate church or anything like that. There is nothing saying that Protestantism is where the action is and we have it all together on our end. He points to statements made by both Protestants and Catholics that are good and that are problematic He points to honest concerns that both have about the other.

    He covers the main issues as well. Not everything, but some of them. Authority is a big one. When I encounter Catholics, many of them say that it's not really possible to understand the text of Scripture without the magisterium. Protestants reply that the meaning is in the text. Catholics say they gave the canon of Scripture. Protestants say canonicity lies in the books and the church discovered that rather than created it.

    Authority I think could be the biggest issue. Where does the authority lie? This is the issue that leads to Sola Scriptura. Protestants say that the tradition cannot be known to be accurate, but we can study the Scripture and know that this is what the apostles said. Catholics see the tradition as being based in apostolic succession and thus reliable.

    Other issues come up too such as justification. This is likely also before the understanding of the New Perspective on Paul so that isn't a big debate in the book, but it was a major issue. Fortunately, I do think Protestants and Catholics are starting to come together to discuss these issues more.

    Sacraments are also an issue. Protestants tend to only recognize baptism and the Lord's Supper. Catholics recognize more. There are also differences on how the Lord's Supper is to be seen. Is it transubstantiation or real presence or is it something else?

    Mary is one of the last topics covered. Catholics often see themselves as defending the mother of God and upholding her honor and such. Protestants look more and say that it seems to border on idolatry to them. Unfortunately, Protestants then go and don't seem to pay any attention to Mary. While we can think Catholics give too much honor, let us not be guilty of giving too little.

    One nice appendix also in the book is a letter John Wesley wrote to a Roman Catholic. It is a letter seeking reconciliation and focusing on what is agreed on. Many of us do hope that one day there can be reconciliation. I am not sure how it is possible, but I can hope.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    Look into Peter Kreeft. No, seriously look at Kreeft books Catholics and Prootestants what we can learn from each other.
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Baptists are often regarded as Protestant. But Baptists unlike Protestants typically reject the terminology of sacrament in regards to believers immersion and the observance of the remembrance of Christ's death. Among other distinctives.
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        Baptists are often regarded as Protestant. But Baptists unlike Protestants typically reject the terminology of sacrament in regards to believers immersion and the observance of the remembrance of Christ's death. Among other distinctives.
        Sacramental theology is part of magisterial Protestantism. Baptists are non-conformists/radical reformers. They're still Protestants because they are in protest.

        "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
        "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
        Katniss Everdeen


        Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

        Comment


        • #5
          For a good look at the distinctions between Lutheranism in particular and Orthodoxy, I'd suggest reading the dialogue between the two camps in the 1570s.

          Also useful is Dan Clendenin's Eastern Orthodox Christianity: A Western Perspective.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
            Sacramental theology is part of magisterial Protestantism. Baptists are non-conformists/radical reformers. They're still Protestants because they are in protest.
            Sacramental theology is not Biblical.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              Sacramental theology is not Biblical.
              Only according to your interpretation.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Sacramental theology is not Biblical.
                Father Brown is a really good show.

                "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
                "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
                Katniss Everdeen


                Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I love you all, but there are irreconcilable differences.

                  Especially with Rome.


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Both sides of a difference needs to be heard and understood. One does not need to agree to understand the other side of a view.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If it's the 1984 book, no, it's not pre-NPP. NPP started in the late 70s with Wright, Sanders, and Dunn, though there had been a few precursors in the 1960s.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Only according to your interpretation.
                        My interpretation meaning what? What Biblically does the term sacrament mean?
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          My interpretation meaning what? What Biblically does the term sacrament mean?
                          Essentially, a sacrament is God interacting with His creation, often by invocation of the Holy Spirit. The word means, more or less, "mystery." The Eucharist, baptism, ordination, unction, confession & absolution, prayer... - these are all noted in scripture.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Essentially, a sacrament is God interacting with His creation, often by invocation of the Holy Spirit. The word means, more or less, "mystery." The Eucharist, baptism, ordination, unction, confession & absolution, prayer... - these are all noted in scripture.
                            Those are just the common assertions. There is nothing mysterious with the believer being buried, immersed in water for Christ's death, representing burial and resurrection. That a Christian is saying by it he or she is going to live for God. There is nothing mysterious in remembering Christ's death in breaking of bread and drinking from a cup in remembrance of His blood which paid for the new covenant. You might as well have said the three Persons, God the Father, His Son and the Person of the Holy Spirit being the One God is a sacrament from your argument. And at that, the Trinity is not so much a mystery as it is the explanation.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Those are just the common assertions. There is nothing mysterious with the believer being buried, immersed in water for Christ's death, representing burial and resurrection. That a Christian is saying by it he or she is going to live for God. There is nothing mysterious in remembering Christ's death in breaking of bread and drinking from a cup in remembrance of His blood which paid for the new covenant. You might as well have said the three Persons, God the Father, His Son and the Person of the Holy Spirit being the One God is a sacrament from your argument.
                              You don't think much of the work of the Holy Spirit, do you?
                              And at that, the Trinity is not so much a mystery as it is the explanation.
                              That you think the Trinity is not a mystery speaks volumes.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
                              14 responses
                              74 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
                              6 responses
                              60 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
                              1 response
                              23 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
                              0 responses
                              22 views
                              2 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
                              3 responses
                              44 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post whag
                              by whag
                               
                              Working...
                              X