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Thread: Let's just let ANYBODY vote!

  1. #41
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I have a 5 year old nephew who would happily write-in President Marshall from Paw Patrol as president. If he wanted to write that on his ballot, I would be 100% fine with that. He would be learning the valuable lesson of participation in the democratic process. Over the years, and with practice, he'd improve and refine his understanding of it. As far as I'm concerned that would be everything gained, nothing lost.
    Being an uncle and being a parent that is with kids 24/7 is two different experiences. Anyway you missed the point so let me explain it. Young children have a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality. An adult that voted for a cartoon character is doing it to make a political statement or to be funny. A young child is being serious. To drive the point home I remember our youngest was totally convinced that the big bad wolf was going to eat his grandmother and warned her about it. While it was rather funny it shows children have a hard time understanding when something is real and isnít. Thatís why children donít make those kind of decisions, they canít accurately and informly make such a decision.


    If you prefer the voting age to be an age where we can agree the children at least understand what they are doing / approximately capable of understanding what political policy is / what it is that they are voting for, then I would have zero problem with that. Would you agree that perhaps 10 or 11 years old is an appropriate age? My memories from when I was in intermediate school (two years in the 10Ė13 age range here) indicate to me I would have been 100% up to the task of being given materials in class from all the various political parties, reading about their policies they laid out, considering the arguments they each made, perhaps doing a group project comparing and contrasting party positions on different issues, and then going to the voting booth with my parents and casting a vote that had rational reasoning behind it. Perhaps not all kids would be capable of that at such an age, but again, I don't think it matters if people write nonsense on their ballot paper or vote for a candidate at random (such votes even out across the country).
    Not really because 10 and 11 year olds are still mentally immature and not unite at the level to make those major decisions. Unless you want to give families tons of votes, keeping the voting age at legal adults is a better start.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  2. Amen RumTumTugger, Christianbookworm amen'd this post.
  3. #42
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    No taxation without representation. Meaning if you pay tax, you should have a vote. Citizenship may bring additional entitlements.
    No, it means if you pay tax you should be represented - it says nothing at all about how those representatives are chosen.

  4. #43
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Automatic voter registration seems like a fine idea to me. Its what we have in our country. We all get sent a voting slip by mail, we're free to use it or not, it acts as our "Voter ID" as well (you only need your real ID in case you've lost your voter slip).

    But letting everyone vote just seems... weird. I'd think that you'd need to at the very minimum have a residence in the country and be of legal age.
    We have several hundred jurisdictions that would have to be involved - the chances at this stage are pretty high we'd be sending voter registrations to dead people and people that moved away ten years earlier. Someday, yeah, it could work, but at this stage it's a huge expense that isn't really justified - there are plenty of opportunities to register that come in the mail.

    Young children do not understand what they are selecting or why. Non-residents do not have the same interests as residents. Non-citizens also have divergent interests - as do felons. Voting is about governing - not just giving everyone a voice. I think suffrage should be as universal as reasonably possible - black people, women, and naturalized citizens should all be enfranchised. A recent felon - not so much. A non-citizen, not at all (Russia making social media posts is nothing compared to allowing hostiles into your voting process - and there's no way to tell them apart once you allow non-citizen voting). Non-residents should vote in their own residential area - if they moved only in the last thirty days then they frankly know more about the old area than the new (thirty days is the cut off in most jurisdictions). And 'free toys in every pot' is not a good form of governance... unless it's an Erector set, of course.

  5. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  6. #44
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    If you prefer the voting age to be an age where we can agree the children at least understand what they are doing / approximately capable of understanding what political policy is / what it is that they are voting for, then I would have zero problem with that. Would you agree that perhaps 10 or 11 years old is an appropriate age?
    If "understand what they are doing" and being "approximately capable of understanding what political policy is" are requirements for voting, I'm not sure the current voting age is high enough.

  7. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  8. #45
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    If "understand what they are doing" and being "approximately capable of understanding what political policy is" are requirements for voting, I'm not sure the current voting age is high enough.
    That's good!

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  9. #46
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    No, it means if you pay tax you should be represented - it says nothing at all about how those representatives are chosen.
    I don't buy this explanation. Let's say that the British King had declared, "America needs to be represented! I will appoint my close friend in Britain, Duke Charles, and he will Totally Represent America and Totally Not Be A Puppet For His And My Interests"... would that have been acceptable? Of course not.

    It's self-evident that elected representatives represent their voters. If the people can't vote, they are not being represented.

  10. #47
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    It's self-evident that elected representatives represent their voters. If the people can't vote, they are not being represented.
    Ten year olds aren't taxed, either.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  11. #48
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Ten year olds aren't taxed, either.
    Um, yes they are. They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes). They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials. They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

    This is why democratic republics are fun!

  12. #49
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Um, yes they are.
    Um, not necessarily.

    They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes).
    That's a WHOLE LOT of assumin' ya got goin' on there.

    They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials.
    Um, I never claimed they weren't.

    They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

    This is why democratic republics are fun!
    Um, you just lookin' for a fight?

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  13. #50
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Um, yes they are. They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes). They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials. They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

    This is why democratic republics are fun!
    IIRC their parents are the ones who pay the ad valorum and income taxes. Their minor children's earnings are considered the parent's income (at least that's the way it was back in the Upper Paleolithic when I was a young'un).

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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