Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Let's just let ANYBODY vote!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    That is standard here in New Zealand for all elections. Any non-citizen, who isn't here just temporarily, can vote.
    Foreigners vote, allow friends also families to come in.

    Starlight, other profs: 'why house prices so high!?!?!??!
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      If you remove the age requirement like you want that means that even infants have the right to vote. The same group you don't even think have a right to live, what with your supporting the "right" of parents to kill children who are a couple months old.
      Let demi guess, starlight thinks children can consent too.
      Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        So, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but NZ was colonized much later than the US.
        12000 years later, IIRC.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Roy View Post
          12000 years later, IIRC.
          Well I wasn't there at the time. Estimates seem to vary a bit, but around 1300 AD for the first humans (polynesian settlers, now called Maori) here in NZ. It doesn't stop their descendants from claiming to be "natives", of course, if it suits their political purposes, and I am totally not cynical about it all...

          However with regard to people being in the US 12000 years earlier, I am sure MM is happy to lecture you on the Truth of the 6000 year old earth.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #35
            No taxation without representation. Meaning if you pay tax, you should have a vote. Citizenship may bring additional entitlements.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              No taxation without representation. Meaning if you pay tax, you should have a vote. Citizenship may bring additional entitlements.
              No, it doesn't state or imply that you can't vote if you don't pay taxes.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                So am I, but this is Roy and I daresay he would not have missed the opportunity to have done exactly the same thing if the shoe were on the other foot.
                Quite.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Yes, actually, particularly with regard to how the US right-wing doesn't seem to see democracy as a fundamental good and cornerstone of Western civilization.
                  OK, this is nutty.

                  I was thinking today how to get this across to you, and maybe I could convey it by considering the Freedom of Speech right. My own personal view is that freedom of speech is a secondary good because it contributes toward the two primary goods of 'Personal Freedom' and 'Democracy'. But I don't particularly regard freedom of speech as a be-all and end-all good in and of itself, only as a means to those ends. So, if there comes along a good reason to curtail it a tiny bit, I don't particularly have a problem with that. So if it turns out that it's better than we ban drawings of Muhammad or going out of our way to insult black or gay people on race or sexual grounds, then so be it.

                  Whereas, from a lot of Americans, and particularly right-wing Americans, I get the impression you view Freedom of Speech as an absolutely fundamental good in and of itself. You view it as not merely present in your constitution to ensure freedom of political opinions and thus allow for a properly functioning democracy (i.e. as a means to achieving the goal of Democracy), but rather you view it as an absolute and sanctified right in an of itself. And woe betide anyone who dares violate the sacred right of freedom of speech. If anyone does, cue people screaming "You're violating my FREEDOM OF SPEECH!" and almost general emergency sirens and panic buttons being hit. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking you guys think the entirety of Western civilization is coming to an end the moment freedom of speech is breached in any minor particular.
                  You can't seem to help yourself from actual conversation to dramaqueen nuttery. I don't think you'll find any conservatives who think it should be allowed, for example, to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, or to incite a riot.....

                  Where to you get these nutty ideas?

                  The rest of your screed is just as nutty, so I'll leave it at that.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Automatic voter registration seems like a fine idea to me. Its what we have in our country. We all get sent a voting slip by mail, we're free to use it or not, it acts as our "Voter ID" as well (you only need your real ID in case you've lost your voter slip).

                    But letting everyone vote just seems... weird. I'd think that you'd need to at the very minimum have a residence in the country and be of legal age.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      Automatic voter registration seems like a fine idea to me. Its what we have in our country. We all get sent a voting slip by mail, we're free to use it or not, it acts as our "Voter ID" as well (you only need your real ID in case you've lost your voter slip).

                      But letting everyone vote just seems... weird. I'd think that you'd need to at the very minimum have a residence in the country and be of legal age.
                      I don't know where you've been or what you've been doing, but you're making WAY too much sense to be posting on Tweb.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        I have a 5 year old nephew who would happily write-in President Marshall from Paw Patrol as president. If he wanted to write that on his ballot, I would be 100% fine with that. He would be learning the valuable lesson of participation in the democratic process. Over the years, and with practice, he'd improve and refine his understanding of it. As far as I'm concerned that would be everything gained, nothing lost.
                        Being an uncle and being a parent that is with kids 24/7 is two different experiences. Anyway you missed the point so let me explain it. Young children have a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality. An adult that voted for a cartoon character is doing it to make a political statement or to be funny. A young child is being serious. To drive the point home I remember our youngest was totally convinced that the big bad wolf was going to eat his grandmother and warned her about it. While it was rather funny it shows children have a hard time understanding when something is real and isn’t. That’s why children don’t make those kind of decisions, they can’t accurately and informly make such a decision.


                        If you prefer the voting age to be an age where we can agree the children at least understand what they are doing / approximately capable of understanding what political policy is / what it is that they are voting for, then I would have zero problem with that. Would you agree that perhaps 10 or 11 years old is an appropriate age? My memories from when I was in intermediate school (two years in the 10–13 age range here) indicate to me I would have been 100% up to the task of being given materials in class from all the various political parties, reading about their policies they laid out, considering the arguments they each made, perhaps doing a group project comparing and contrasting party positions on different issues, and then going to the voting booth with my parents and casting a vote that had rational reasoning behind it. Perhaps not all kids would be capable of that at such an age, but again, I don't think it matters if people write nonsense on their ballot paper or vote for a candidate at random (such votes even out across the country).
                        Not really because 10 and 11 year olds are still mentally immature and not unite at the level to make those major decisions. Unless you want to give families tons of votes, keeping the voting age at legal adults is a better start.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          No taxation without representation. Meaning if you pay tax, you should have a vote. Citizenship may bring additional entitlements.
                          No, it means if you pay tax you should be represented - it says nothing at all about how those representatives are chosen.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            Automatic voter registration seems like a fine idea to me. Its what we have in our country. We all get sent a voting slip by mail, we're free to use it or not, it acts as our "Voter ID" as well (you only need your real ID in case you've lost your voter slip).

                            But letting everyone vote just seems... weird. I'd think that you'd need to at the very minimum have a residence in the country and be of legal age.
                            We have several hundred jurisdictions that would have to be involved - the chances at this stage are pretty high we'd be sending voter registrations to dead people and people that moved away ten years earlier. Someday, yeah, it could work, but at this stage it's a huge expense that isn't really justified - there are plenty of opportunities to register that come in the mail.

                            Young children do not understand what they are selecting or why. Non-residents do not have the same interests as residents. Non-citizens also have divergent interests - as do felons. Voting is about governing - not just giving everyone a voice. I think suffrage should be as universal as reasonably possible - black people, women, and naturalized citizens should all be enfranchised. A recent felon - not so much. A non-citizen, not at all (Russia making social media posts is nothing compared to allowing hostiles into your voting process - and there's no way to tell them apart once you allow non-citizen voting). Non-residents should vote in their own residential area - if they moved only in the last thirty days then they frankly know more about the old area than the new (thirty days is the cut off in most jurisdictions). And 'free toys in every pot' is not a good form of governance... unless it's an Erector set, of course.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              If you prefer the voting age to be an age where we can agree the children at least understand what they are doing / approximately capable of understanding what political policy is / what it is that they are voting for, then I would have zero problem with that. Would you agree that perhaps 10 or 11 years old is an appropriate age?
                              If "understand what they are doing" and being "approximately capable of understanding what political policy is" are requirements for voting, I'm not sure the current voting age is high enough.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                                If "understand what they are doing" and being "approximately capable of understanding what political policy is" are requirements for voting, I'm not sure the current voting age is high enough.
                                That's good!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                142 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                387 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                112 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                364 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X