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  • #61
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Yup. My first presidential election I knew a whole lot of people who voted for Jimmy Carter even though they despised him or thought he was a so-so governor at best solely because he was a Southerner or from Georgia.
    I remember people voting for him simply because he was "a borned again Christian" [sic]
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #62
      I don't know how true it is but there were supposedly a lot of women who voted for JFK primarily because they loved his hair

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #63
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I don't know how true it is but there were supposedly a lot of women who voted for JFK primarily because they loved his hair
        And his cute little children - they wanted chilluns in the WH!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #64
          And that he and Jackie were such a cute couple.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #65
            And he had a funny accent.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
              Unfortunately, yes. Way too many people cast their vote for ignorant or frivolous (i.e., gotta vote for the woman because woman or man because man) reasons to make it likely that the best person will win. It would be nice if there were an impartial way of weeding out those votes, but there isn't.
              Can't forget how Bill Clinton's Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright, even declared that women who don't support Hillary are earning "a special place in Hell."

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                Practicality comes first of course, but it seems a good thing to work towards none the less. Seems like it would force jurisdictions to get things sorted out that should have been sorted out to begin with.
                Yeah, but that's grossly unfair to the jurisdictions - a small, poor county can't upgrade readily to new hardware and software when tech outpaces them. Also, you don't want all records too easily accessible - you need to allow time for a human to pull the plug on sealed records, especially in cases of domestic abuse or other potential threats. Seal orders in County A may not reach County Z in another state - but if the records are already available, it's a window of opportunity. There are a lot of advantages to having localized government - but in a highly mobile society, we have to be careful of some of the disadvantages.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Roy View Post
                  ...some of their voters, if they have to in order to get re-elected, if they care about being re-elected.
                  Good way to lose an incumbent advantage, that. Unlike a proportional system, there's incentive to aid both your base and those who voted against - if you pander too strongly to the base you lose the advantage of being an incumbent unless you are in a district that is skewed to heck - and even then, one wrong headline can hurt you badly come primary season.

                  Also, if you really represent selectively, you will almost certainly cross the line to get yourself censored or even impeached.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Good way to lose an incumbent advantage, that. Unlike a proportional system, there's incentive to aid both your base and those who voted against - if you pander too strongly to the base you lose the advantage of being an incumbent unless you are in a district that is skewed to heck - and even then, one wrong headline can hurt you badly come primary season.

                    Also, if you really represent selectively, you will almost certainly cross the line to get yourself censored or even impeached.
                    I don't think anything Roy said indicated that a politician would "pander too strongly to the base".... politicians have opposition research staff, pollsters, focus groups.... many of them will do whatever it takes to pander to whoever is required to keep their butts in office.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I don't think anything Roy said indicated that a politician would "pander too strongly to the base".... politicians have opposition research staff, pollsters, focus groups.... many of them will do whatever it takes to pander to whoever is required to keep their butts in office.
                      It sounded to me that he was saying representatives only really represent those who voted for them.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        It sounded to me that he was saying representatives only really represent those who voted for them.
                        You need more cynicism. I was saying they don't always even do that.

                        Question: In US local elections, do incumbents face opponents from within their own party? I know the sitting president is doesn't have to fight a primary if he's seeking a second term - is that true for other elections?
                        Last edited by Roy; 07-12-2018, 11:57 AM.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          It sounded to me that he was saying representatives only really represent those who voted for them.
                          I think that's eisegesis.

                          But we'll let him address that.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Roy View Post
                            You need more cynicism. I was saying they don't always even do that.

                            Question: In US local elections, do incumbents face opponents from within their own party? I know the sitting president is doesn't have to fight a primary if he's seeking a second term - is that true for other elections?
                            Sometimes they do. Eric Cantor infamously lost his seat as Speaker of the House when another Republican defeated him in a primary election.

                            A president - especially an unpopular one - can also face a primary fight when seeking another term, but it's rare. Gerald Ford faced a primary fight in 1976 (though he was also unusual in that he wasn't elected to the job in the first place).
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              You need more cynicism. I was saying they don't always even do that.

                              Question: In US local elections, do incumbents face opponents from within their own party? I know the sitting president is doesn't have to fight a primary if he's seeking a second term - is that true for other elections?
                              In primaries, yes (there are three different primary systems not counting caucus). In actual elections, no - well, not usually. IF a candidate changed parties, it could happen but I've never heard of a case.

                              But I think what you're asking is if there's no opposition in the primary, does the primary even occur? The answer is yes, it does*. Most times multiple offices are up for election and the primary process continues - and the unopposed candidate will be on the ballot. The candidate generally will not campaign as a primary candidate but will begin the electoral campaign. In the primary, an unopposed candidate will usually win - a write in campaign is always a possibility but they are very rarely successful.

                              In an given office, it just depends on whether or not multiple candidates choose to run in the primary for their party and can meet eligibility requirements.

                              Finally, you're mistaken on one point. Sitting presidents do have to win their party's nomination in the primaries when running for re-election - and while rare, there have been some sitting presidents that didn't actually get that nomination. It hasn't happened in my lifetime - although both Ford and Carter came close as I recall.

































                              * Please tell me no one saw that!
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                In primaries, yes (there are three different primary systems not counting caucus). In actual elections, no - well, not usually. IF a candidate changed parties, it could happen but I've never heard of a case.
                                California just recently changed so that the top two vote-getters in a primary election - regardless of party - face off in the general election, so in some cases people had to choose between two Democrats.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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