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Harvard Study: Christianity Is Not Shrinking, But Growing Stronger In The US.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're no doubt referring to superficial similarities and attributing to them more significance than is warranted. But I'm thinking of one critical difference that separates Christianity from other religions. Something that makes it unique. See if you can figure it out.
    Only one thing? I wonder what Bible you are reading.
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Charles View Post
      Only one thing? I wonder what Bible you are reading.
      Surely you two could be somewhat more charitable in your responses to each other. MM is not saying that there's only one difference, but that he has a single "critical difference" in mind - which is not entirely fair, in that he's asking you to read his mind.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #63
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Surely you two could be somewhat more charitable in your responses to each other. MM is not saying that there's only one difference, but that he has a single "critical difference" in mind - which is not entirely fair, in that he's asking you to read his mind.
        Fair points. I would still maintain there are quite many critical differences.
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Surely you two could be somewhat more charitable in your responses to each other. MM is not saying that there's only one difference, but that he has a single "critical difference" in mind - which is not entirely fair, in that he's asking you to read his mind.
          Anybody who knows Christianity as well as skeptics like Jimmy and Chuck claim then they should be able to name THE factor that makes Christianity unique among all other religions. But I'll let them off the hook of they ask nicely.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #65
            It's my birthday, so I'll at least give them a hint:

            1 Corinthians 15:17.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Anybody who knows Christianity as well as skeptics like Jimmy and Chuck claim then they should be able to name THE factor that makes Christianity unique among all other religions. But I'll let them off the hook of they ask nicely.
              Well, I must admit to not being sure what you're driving at, either.

              ETA: Huh. I had a couple things in mind, but that verse doesn't lead to either of them.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                This is your opinion, nothing more than that, opinion. You are simply asserting things - things that aren't actually true.
                Speaking of nothing more than opinion

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  I'll bet you can't describe the key similarities between the myths and crhristianity.
                  "crhristianity" is one of the myriad of things jimmy can't spell

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    It's my birthday, so I'll at least give them a hint:

                    1 Corinthians 15:17.
                    The reward of resurrection exists in the myths as well, MM. Why do you think they buried prescious items along with the dead?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Well, I must admit to not being sure what you're driving at, either.

                      ETA: Huh. I had a couple things in mind, but that verse doesn't lead to either of them.
                      It seems I was being too clever for my own good.

                      My point is that Christianity is the only religion that rests entirely on a single, mundane fact of history. As Paul says, without the resurrection, the entire thing collapses. This is what sets Christianity apart. It's also what gives Christianity its incredible resilience even in times of persecution, because it is grounded in history. Trying to rationally disprove Christianity is on the same level as trying to rationally disprove, say, that George Washington was the first US president. It can't be done. People can only stubbornly reject the facts, but they can't disprove that it really happened.

                      Like I explained to a co-worker once, the Bible is not some mystical, religious tome. At a very basic level, it's simply a historical record of God's interaction with mankind.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        It seems I was being too clever for my own good.

                        My point is that Christianity is the only religion that rests entirely on a single, mundane fact of history. As Paul says, without the resurrection, the entire thing collapses. This is what sets Christianity apart. It's also what gives Christianity its incredible resilience even in times of persecution, because it is grounded in history. Trying to rationally disprove Christianity is on the same level as trying to rationally disprove, say, that George Washington was the first US president. It can't be done. People can only stubbornly reject the facts, but they can't disprove that it really happened.

                        Like I explained to a co-worker once, the Bible is not some mystical, religious tome. At a very basic level, it's simply a historical record of God's interaction with mankind.
                        If someone claims that he saw a man walk on water, no one can prove that it was not an historical event. Only the naive would believe it, or the scammers use it, for their own purposes.
                        Last edited by JimL; 07-14-2018, 09:04 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by JimLanebrain View Post
                          If someone claims that he saw a man walk on water, no one can prove that it was not an historical event. Only the naive would believe it, or the scammers use it, for their own purposes.
                          And when something is attested as a fact of history by multiple credible witnesses then only a fool would deny it. See Simon Greenleaf's "The Testimony of the Evangelists".
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            If someone claims that he saw a man walk on water, no one can prove that it was not an historical event. Only the naive would believe it, or the scammers use it, for their own purposes.
                            The gospels far and away meet the evidentiary standards of modern court rooms - multiple, credible eye witnesses with familiarity with the Subject, Multiple sightings over an extended period of time by multiple sources. Corollary events that cannot be explained without the primary event - Perry Mason would love a case this easy!

                            The truth is, you don't want to believe - that's up to you. But you are making a mistake trying to pass off personal doubt for reasoned skepticism.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              If someone claims that he saw a man walk on water, no one can prove that it was not an historical event. Only the naive would believe it, or the scammers use it, for their own purposes.
                              Always grand how atheist have to assume naturalism is true right from the start and try to impress others with their stacked deck. Tell me, what evidence exist that naturalism is a fact and no miraculous things have ever happened?
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                It seems I was being too clever for my own good.

                                My point is that Christianity is the only religion that rests entirely on a single, mundane fact of history. As Paul says, without the resurrection, the entire thing collapses. This is what sets Christianity apart. It's also what gives Christianity its incredible resilience even in times of persecution, because it is grounded in history. Trying to rationally disprove Christianity is on the same level as trying to rationally disprove, say, that George Washington was the first US president. It can't be done. People can only stubbornly reject the facts, but they can't disprove that it really happened.

                                Like I explained to a co-worker once, the Bible is not some mystical, religious tome. At a very basic level, it's simply a historical record of God's interaction with mankind.
                                This is a rather interesting example of how apologetics sometimes seems to miss the essence of the message in its’ search for philosophical justification, historical or scientific proof or evidence.

                                You said: “Like I explained to a co-worker once, the Bible is not some mystical, religious tome. At a very basic level, it's simply a historical record of God's interaction with mankind.”

                                The interesting thing of course is that the human perspective when it comes to what is eternal is rather limited. We seem, even in our most philosophical moments, to be captured in time and space at least to some degree. A historical record of God’s interaction with mankind, even if it exists, cannot bridge the fundamental difference between man, God, time, eternity and so on. It is very fundamental to the Christian message that it far surpasses what is given in time and space and what the human eye can see or what the mind can grasp. The following quotes are chosen among quite many others:

                                Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29
                                For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? Romans 8:24
                                For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:12
                                So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:18
                                Now even a Christian was baffled as to what single thing set Christianity apart from all other religions. I think, if you read your post again, you will see that there are quite many preconditions for the resurection (both material and immaterial). And there was a rather significant message that needed to be shared for it to have the significance it had. And most importantly, the significance of it is not based on what could be seen, can be proven to be historical facts or whatever.

                                The heart of it is that it points to something far more important than historical facts, far beyond the grasp of the human mind. As a wise man once said there is no reason to believe in the God whose existence can be proven. First of all proof would remove the need for faith, but second and more important, it would be a very limited God if it was within the grasp of our capabilities to understand it.

                                "Although the Resurrection was an historical event that could be verified by the sign of the empty tomb and by the reality of the apostles' encounters with the risen Christ, still it remains at the very heart of the mystery of faith as something that transcends and surpasses history." Catholic Church Catechism
                                "That Jesus’ followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know." E. P. Sanders
                                Last edited by Charles; 07-15-2018, 04:32 AM.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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