Adnan Oktar's Turkish YEC organisation has been raided by the authorities, and Oktar and his followers arrested for a long list of serious offences. More details here.
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Prominent creationist charged with blackmail, fraud, torture and child abuse
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Prominent creationist charged with blackmail, fraud, torture and child abuse
Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...Tags: None
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Not the first time he's been in trouble for things like blackmail, extortion and threats of violence against opposition, use of cocaine, and encouraging a theocratic revolution. He's the Islamic extremist that YEC groups like Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and AnswersinGenesis (AiG) love.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Given the Turkish authorities' penchant for trumped-up charges and choke hold on the press, I'll take much of this with a grain of salt. Never heard of him before.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostNot the first time he's been in trouble for things like blackmail, extortion and threats of violence against opposition, use of cocaine, and encouraging a theocratic revolution. He's the Islamic extremist that YEC groups like Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and AnswersinGenesis (AiG) love.
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostA totally different kind of example illustrating the total lack of honesty and integrity of the leading YEC organizations can be seen below.
A few years back the leadership of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) cozied up with a group run by the Turkish Holocaust denying criminal Harun Yahya (real name Adnan Oktar and widely known for his use of blackmail, extortion and threats of violence against opposition, use of cocaine, and encouraging a theocratic revolution) to form conferences in opposition to evolution. ICR got interested in Harun Yahya's group when they started publishing anti-evolution tracts and immediately wanted to help.
When these connections were exposed by the Washington Post and others ICR did what any self-respecting group would do when caught red-handed. They lied through their teeth about the whole sordid affair. ICR went into full denial mode. When he was queried about past and present links with Yahya/Oktar, Bruce Wood, ICR's Public Information Officer, replied in part, "ICR has never cooperated with him... The primary reason for non-cooperative relationship is a distinctive in the beliefs of ICR and Mr. Oktar... We know of no such occurrence/relationship."
That is a provable falsehood.
ICR worked hand in glove with his "Bilim Arastirma Vakfi" (BAV - called the "Science Research Foundation" or SRF in English) on at least two occasions at creationist conferences in Turkey on April 4 and June 5, 1998[1].
BAV's (a.k.a. SRF) website specifically noted ICR's contribution. Duane Gish, then Vice President of ICR, and David Menton, a member of ICR's Technical Advisory Board, made on-camera testimonials to BAV claiming to have aired their differences on religion (remember what Wood claimed[2]). Gish even states he hopes for collaboration with BAV.
Their website quotes Gish as saying:
"We certainly urge our colleges in America to cooperate with the SRF, this marvelous Foundation, in anyway possible."
Dr. John Morris, ICR's President (and son of Henry Morris, the organization's founder and the Father of the modern creationist movement), gushed enthusiastically:
"Let me recommend these young men to you, without any reservation... The men of the Science and Research Foundation are very bright individuals who have the ability to have an impact in Turkey."
Here is a picture (sorry about the small size) of the speakers at one of the conferences (the second one) that they deny they attended along with a few characters from AnswersinGenesis (AiG) as well
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28832[/ATTACH]
From left to right: Ibrahim Tuncer (BAV), John Morris (ICR), Edward Boudreaux (AiG), Duane Gish (ICR), Altug Berker (BAV), Carl Fliermans (AiG), David Menton (ICR), Edip Keha and Michael Girouard.
Gish also spoke at the first one as well, and since the above image has Gish with his face buried in his hands, here's another picture from the conference
[ATTACH=CONFIG]28833[/ATTACH]
After the irrefutable evidence that ICR (and AiG) surfaced one YEC apologist declared that they were they went there to try to bring the Muslims to Christ. But as John Morris made clear to the "Washington Post" they were there to assist their new allies oppose evolution, saying that
"Why I'm so interested in seeing creationism succeed in Turkey is that evolution is an evil concept that has done such damage to society."
That was their motivation not any attempt to evangelize. Although it is entirely possible they did try to turn them to Christ that would have been secondary. It was all about opposing evolution.
While it is one thing to hop into bed with a group of Muslim extremists led by a criminal Muslim holocaust denier interested in starting a theocratic revolution in Turkey, the evidence that they cannot be trusted to tell the truth is demonstrated by the fact that they tried to lie their way out of it when knowledge of their association became known outside of YEC circles
1. And BAV/SRF is right in the thick of Yahya's thuggish activities having been forced to pay fines to six professors that they harassed, threatened and slandered and are well known to use women to have sex with scholars and secretly video tape it and threaten to release the tapes if they didn't cooperate.
2. "The primary reason for non-cooperative relationship is a distinctive in the beliefs of ICR and Mr. Oktar"
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostGiven the Turkish authorities' penchant for trumped-up charges and choke hold on the press, I'll take much of this with a grain of salt. Never heard of him before.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostProbably should back that upEnter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Yes - the Turkish version of Kent Hovind.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Often the "fossils" were fake being clumsily carved and the images of the modern animals not much better. Probably the most notorious example is his pictures of a Caddisfly which is obviously a fishing lure complete with hook
Personally I like this one as well
Yup. Exactly the same. Well, except that the fossil "frog" had shorter legs and a freaking tail. Oh wait that's a salamander not a frog.
Another example of his "understanding" about that which he seeks to criticize is his attack on starfish
Originally posted by rogue06I should add that the Turkish Holocaust denying creationist Harun Yahya (real name Adnan Oktar)[1] has his own "interesting" version of this. From his website:
Originally posted by What Does "A Transitional Form" Fossil Mean?...Evolutionists say that fish, for example, have come from a creature that resembles a starfish. This means that one day, due to mutation, a starfish lost one of its arms, and during the next millions of years it lost all of its arms except for some that started by themselves to develop into fins.
Source
Folks, this is just the sort of thing you just cannot make up. Here is an image from that webpage illustrating what he is babbling on about:
And here from his gloriously inept book Atlas of Creation is this including the caption:
Yahya starfish book.jpg
For example, evolutionists claim that starfish evolved into real fish over millions of years.
According to that claim, there must exist many transitional forms between the two species.
However, not one fossil belonging to any such transitional form has ever been found.
There are starfish and fish in the fossil record, but no forms between the two.
I think that might have been where Magellan004 (the poster who said magnets were illegal in Australia among other things) might have got some of his ideas:
Last edited by rogue06; 07-14-2018, 09:08 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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The book, while almost comical, is one of the most visually appealing pieces of creationist literature I've ever seen, seriously. No expense was spared in preparing the book and images themselves. Now, as for the content... that's a different story.
Comment
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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It seems somewhat misleading to refer to him as a televangelist, as evangelism is more or less a Christian concept.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt seems somewhat misleading to refer to him as a televangelist, as evangelism is more or less a Christian concept.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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