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12 Russians Accused Of Hacking Democrats...

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  • #91
    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I guess I honestly don't understand the visceral reaction to Hillary any more than any generic Democratic candidate, especially given that I've seen that some here would have preferred a Bernie Sanders (whose pie in the sky style socialism flies completely in the face of any economic sense, certainly compared to the comparatively moderate policies of Hillary).
    Bernie Sanders has the attraction of actually running on his convictions. Hillary has so long had a penchant for secrecy and telling lies when the truth would do that I have no idea what she stands for aside from being Hillary. I would've voted for Bernie over Hillary. I would've strongly considered voting for Sanders over Trump. Yes, his policies are way left. I don't think he could've gotten much passed, however.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Bernie Sanders has the attraction of actually running on his convictions. Hillary has so long had a penchant for secrecy and telling lies when the truth would do that I have no idea what she stands for aside from being Hillary. I would've voted for Bernie over Hillary. I would've strongly considered voting for Sanders over Trump. Yes, his policies are way left. I don't think he could've gotten much passed, however.
      But why it is a positive for him to stick to his convictions if said convictions are rotten to begin with?
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        But why it is a positive for him to stick to his convictions if said convictions are rotten to begin with?
        At least he walks the walk even if it's in the wrong way rather than being a two-faced hypocrite

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          At least he walks the walk even if it's in the wrong way rather than being a two-faced hypocrite
          Yep.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            I'm not 'getting mad'. I'm pointing out it was wrong and treasonous. And I'm consistent in may application of that accusation across any and all that would try to engage a foreign power to aid them in an election.
            Wrong, maybe, treasonous, no. As I've explained before, treason is defined very narrowly in the US constitution, and Trump, even assuming the worst of him in every way, did not commit that. Here's an article explaining why:
            https://takecareblog.com/blog/russia...treason-clause

            Note that this is hosted on a very anti-Trump website, so one can hardly accuse them of any pro-Trump bias.
            Last edited by Terraceth; 07-15-2018, 09:59 PM.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
              Wrong, maybe, treasonous, no. As I've explained before, treason is defined very narrowly in the US constitution, and Trump, even assuming the worst of him in every way, did not commit that. Here's an article explaining why:
              https://takecareblog.com/blog/russia...treason-clause

              Note that this is hosted on a very anti-Trump website, so one can hardly accuse them of any pro-Trump bias.
              Much more than wrong. But you may be right those circumstances may not rise to the legal definition of treason thus specified.

              I will say I never thought I would see the day I'd be arguing with conservatives and Republicans about why a man asking for help from the Russians to secure a win, or to bring down an American citizen should not be immediatel disqualified as a valid candidate for president.

              And those of you arguing such should be ashamed of yourselves.

              Jim
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2018, 10:57 PM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                Much more than wrong. But you may be right those circumstances may not rise to the legal definition of treason thus specified.

                I will say I never thought I would see the day I'd be arguing with conservatives and Republican about why a man asking for help from the Russians to secure a win, or to bring down an American citizen did not disqualify him as a valid candidate for president.

                And those of you arguing such should be ashamed of yourselves.

                Jim
                First it was political rhetoric and second it isn’t illegal. Stop changing up the goalpost.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Bernie Sanders (whose pie in the sky style socialism flies completely in the face of any economic sense
                  That statement makes no sense to me. The majority of Bernie's policies are standard in Western Europe and the other English-speaking countries... how can standard policy implemented in most of the Western world be "pie in the sky socialism"?

                  I regard Bernie as one of the most fiscally sensible members of US Congress... He was among the leaders in calling out the anti-math Republicans this term for first cutting the US govt's income by $2 trillion and then turning around and increasing military spending. He's always good at getting his proposed policies budgeted by the CBO or similar, and laying out clearly exactly what taxes he proposes to pay for them. The Dems put him as their chair on the Senate Budget Committee for a reason.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    First it was political rhetoric and second it isn’t illegal. Stop changing up the goalpost.
                    I've not changed any goalposts. Stop making stuff up.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Much more than wrong. But you may be right those circumstances may not rise to the legal definition of treason thus specified.

                      I will say I never thought I would see the day I'd be arguing with conservatives and Republicans about why a man asking for help from the Russians to secure a win, or to bring down an American citizen should not be immediatel disqualified as a valid candidate for president.

                      And those of you arguing such should be ashamed of yourselves.

                      Jim
                      Agreed! And more than that, is making the EU more unstable by alienating these traditional allies (which is to Putin's benefit) and seems to be doing Putin’s bidding re weakening NATO. One wonders just what Putin has on Trump?
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Agreed! And more than that, is making the EU more unstable by alienating these traditional allies (which is to Putin's benefit) and seems to be doing Putin’s bidding re weakening NATO. One wonders just what Putin has on Trump?
                        I wonder that more and more each time trump defers to putin, each time he attacks our allies.

                        OTOH, it is trumps style to get results from his staff by criticising them and pitting them against each other while chumming it up with his business competitors so he can get what he wants out of them.

                        This was one of my earliest concerns about him. That he would take that into the presidency and try to wield that onto the world stage. It would be like a child taking a strategy for camping in his backyard that depends on the intervention of his parents and the close proximity of resources alone and out into the wilderness.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          That statement makes no sense to me. The majority of Bernie's policies are standard in Western Europe and the other English-speaking countries... how can standard policy implemented in most of the Western world be "pie in the sky socialism"?

                          I regard Bernie as one of the most fiscally sensible members of US Congress... He was among the leaders in calling out the anti-math Republicans this term for first cutting the US govt's income by $2 trillion and then turning around and increasing military spending. He's always good at getting his proposed policies budgeted by the CBO or similar, and laying out clearly exactly what taxes he proposes to pay for them. The Dems put him as their chair on the Senate Budget Committee for a reason.
                          The CBO is a joke. Its forecasts are never accurate because they don't take into account the economic response to changes.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            I've not changed any goalposts. Stop making stuff up.
                            Yeah you have or do you not remember where you’ve spent the past ten pages hyperventilating about Trump ‘committing treason’? Problem with your version is you’ve shown yourself to be so bias that you have chooses the most jaded interpretation possible and ignored the rest. As I recall, wasn’t that comment made around the time that it was coming out that foreign adversaries might have read her e mails?
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              The CBO is a joke.
                              I see this as part of the US right's war on fact, expertise, and intelligence - demean and belittle any possible objective source of information, and then your crazy ideas can't possibly be proven wrong because no impartial authorities are left to judge them.

                              Its forecasts are never accurate because they don't take into account the economic response to changes.
                              Actually, the crazy Republicans insisted they do this, and it's known as "dynamic scoring". Unfortunately the crazies insisted the CBO do it backwards, so instead of using empirical real-world data about how tax cuts hurt economic growth, the Republicans forced them to pretend that tax cuts help economic growth, so the CBO dynamic scoring takes these delusional Republican
                              fantasies into account in the forecasts and pretends that tax cuts lead to rainbows and unicorns.

                              In practice the economic response to changes is almost always very very small, below the margin of error of the forecasts themselves, so trying to take it into account is pointless.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                I see this as part of the US right's war on fact, expertise, and intelligence
                                You are entertaining!

                                - demean and belittle any possible objective source of information, and then your crazy ideas can't possibly be proven wrong because no impartial authorities are left to judge them.
                                Actually, it's because the CBO has been so wrong so often. They only crunch the numbers given to them - they don't actually do that research themselves. And they only do static assessments - what the results would be if X happened, totally independent of the fact that often consumers will discover they can do Y instead.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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