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12 Russians Accused Of Hacking Democrats...

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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    You are entertaining!



    Actually, it's because the CBO has been so wrong so often. They only crunch the numbers given to them - they don't actually do that research themselves. And they only do static assessments - what the results would be if X happened, totally independent of the fact that often consumers will discover they can do Y instead.
    Thank you for proving Starlights point!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I wonder that more and more each time trump defers to putin, each time he attacks our allies.

      OTOH, it is trumps style to get results from his staff by criticising them and pitting them against each other while chumming it up with his business competitors so he can get what he wants out of them.

      This was one of my earliest concerns about him. That he would take that into the presidency and try to wield that onto the world stage. It would be like a child taking a strategy for camping in his backyard that depends on the intervention of his parents and the close proximity of resources alone and out into the wilderness.
      To be honest, Trump's behavior towards Russia and Putin seems so brazen I feel it's an indication that Putin doesn't actually have anything on him. The fact is, Trump's apparent refusal to issue any criticisms of Putin (despite being more than willing to criticize other world leaders) is suspicious, and if the goal was for Trump to secretly be helping out Putin, being so suspicious is completely counterproductive. Certainly, Trump not being smart enough to realize that is not beyond the possibility of fact, but as far as I can tell, Putin is not particularly stupid. If he was controlling Trump, I'd think he would tell Trump at some point "hey, why don't you look like you're taking a some kind of a stand against me in terms of rhetoric, but under the table keep around some policies I want?"

      Honestly, a possibility I find not unlikely is this: Trump is such an egotist that when accusations came out about Russian attempts to influence the election, he simply couldn't believe that his victory had come from anything other than his own appeal that he rejected it outright. Since Putin denies that happened, and has (as far as I can tell) made a point of not criticizing Trump and trying to cozy up to him, which other world leaders haven't done, this feeds into Trump's ego and creates affinity for Putin and a preference to listen to him over others.

      Never attribute to malice that which can be ascribed to stupidity... or however that expression goes.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        You are entertaining!



        Actually, it's because the CBO has been so wrong so often. They only crunch the numbers given to them - they don't actually do that research themselves. And they only do static assessments - what the results would be if X happened, totally independent of the fact that often consumers will discover they can do Y instead.
        The CBO is the epitome of GIGO.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Rogue06 is the epitome of GIGO.
          Fixed that for you.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            I wonder that more and more each time trump defers to putin, each time he attacks our allies.
            Even more so after his treasonous press conference with Putin today, when he took Putin's side and threw his own Intelligence service under the bus.

            OTOH, it is trumps style to get results from his staff by criticising them and pitting them against each other while chumming it up with his business competitors so he can get what he wants out of them.

            This was one of my earliest concerns about him. That he would take that into the presidency and try to wield that onto the world stage. It would be like a child taking a strategy for camping in his backyard that depends on the intervention of his parents and the close proximity of resources alone and out into the wilderness.
            Yes it is Trump's style, you are correct in that. EXCEPT when it comes to Putin, where what we invariably get is deference. Why is this?
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              EXCEPT when it comes to Putin, where what we invariably get is deference. Why is this?
              According to the Fire and Fury book, Trump has two personal heroes who he's idolized his whole life: Rupert Murdoch, and Vladimir Putin. He views both as "great" and "strong" men.

              So it's difficult to know in Putin's case precisely where Trump's fan-girl love-affair ends, and the Russian-mob-ties money-laundering, blackmail, and treasonous favors begin. It's a probably more of a continuum than clear-cut. That's apparently pretty normal for treason - people often don't simply get up and say "today I am going to betray my country for personal profit" but rather it's a slippery slope where each decision and meeting leads to the next and the next and the next, and it's not clear to person being subverted that they have crossed a line or even that there was a line.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                According to the Fire and Fury book, Trump has two personal heroes who he's idolized his whole life: Rupert Murdoch, and Vladimir Putin. He views both as "great" and "strong" men.
                It figures that poor inadequate Trump would identify with these two unscrupulous power-brokers. We should have kept Rupert Murdoch in Australia, where he wouldn’t have done so much damage.

                So it's difficult to know in Putin's case precisely where Trump's fan-girl love-affair ends, and the Russian-mob-ties money-laundering, blackmail, and treasonous favors begin. It's a probably more of a continuum than clear-cut. That's apparently pretty normal for treason - people often don't simply get up and say "today I am going to betray my country for personal profit" but rather it's a slippery slope where each decision and meeting leads to the next and the next and the next, and it's not clear to person being subverted that they have crossed a line or even that there was a line.
                I think it’s just straight-out blackmail, to use a blunter word than kompromat, rather than idolising strong-man Putin. Either via money laundering or millions owed Russia, or sexual exploits...or all three. After all, Trump is notorious for all these things and at times has been in desperate financial straits.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  We should have kept Rupert Murdoch in Australia, where he wouldn’t have done so much damage.
                  Certainly a candidate for any millennium list of the 100 worst people in the world, IMO.

                  I think it’s just straight-out blackmail, to use a blunter word than kompromat, rather than idolising strong-man Putin. Either via money laundering or millions owed Russia, or sexual exploits...or all three. After all, Trump is notorious for all these things and at times has been in desperate financial straits.
                  I think if Trump's been laundering their money for decades and has taken millions in loans from them, then they don't need to blackmail him... he's already their employee. So it's not a matter of Putin talking to Trump and saying "we have X information on you, do Y, or else!". It's a matter of Trump going in there with an existing understanding that he is an employee on Putin's payroll and that his role is to launder the money in the US for his mob boss and to do what his boss tells him, and in return he thinks his boss will keep supplying him with money in the form of laundering and loans. So I would be somewhat surprised if Putin needs to resort of flat-out blackmail to get Trump to obey him. Money is what drives Trump.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Certainly a candidate for any millennium list of the 100 worst people in the world, IMO.

                    I think if Trump's been laundering their money for decades and has taken millions in loans from them, then they don't need to blackmail him... he's already their employee. So it's not a matter of Putin talking to Trump and saying "we have X information on you, do Y, or else!". It's a matter of Trump going in there with an existing understanding that he is an employee on Putin's payroll and that his role is to launder the money in the US for his mob boss and to do what his boss tells him, and in return he thinks his boss will keep supplying him with money in the form of laundering and loans. So I would be somewhat surprised if Putin needs to resort of flat-out blackmail to get Trump to obey him. Money is what drives Trump.
                    We're not actually in any disagreement. I meant "blackmail" in the broad sense that Putin has enough on Trump to threaten exposure unless his demands are met.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      I meant "blackmail" in the broad sense that Putin has enough on Trump to threaten exposure unless his demands are met.
                      Well it seems pretty likely that Putin does have enough on Trump to blackmail him if he wanted. I don't know to what extent blackmail would work on someone with Trump's rather special-needs psychology.

                      Let's say Putin has the pee-pee tape of Trump paying prostitutes to pee on a bed Obama once slept on... would Trump care? He's already got enough sex scandals to last a lifetime, what's one more or less? He probably cares more about whether it gets out that Broidy paid off one of Trump's mistresses who had an abortion, because his base actually cares about abortion.

                      And as far as finances go... well, Trump's lifelong fear seems to have always been that people might find out he isn't as rich as he claims, or that he isn't rich at all. If Putin can prove that he'd have something over Trump, because in Trump's mind his entire brand is about the idea that he's rich and if someone takes that away, he's toast. But if Putin's merely got evidence of illegal financial dealings like money laundering, I'm not sure Trump would care. Trump's never cared about crime in the past - he's been sued thousands of times - the Trump University scam was one of the recent big ones. So I don't think he'd care much if Putin exposed some of his many financial crimes.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • Although Putin did seem to enjoy at least pretending that he had some material on Trump at the summit. Because his answer to the question of whether he had something basically amounted to:

                        (my paraphrase) "Funny you should ask about that. Before he ran for the presidency, Trump was just a random private citizen. So, you know, to take one weirdly specific example, at the St Petersberg Economic Forum in 2013 when Trump was in Moscow, there were 500 prominent businessmen attending, and do you think we managed to collect compromising material on every single one of them? ...surely not?"

                        I assume in his head he finished it with "we executed the KGB agents who didn't manage to collect compromising material on the businessmen they were assigned to".
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Fixed that for you.
                          I do believe you've managed to get under his skin, rogue.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I do believe you've managed to get under his skin, rogue.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                              According to the Fire and Fury book...
                              Figures you'd be dumb enough to take anything in that book seriously.

                              "The author of the explosive new book about Donald Trump's presidency acknowledged in an author's note that he wasn't certain all of its content was true."
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                Fixed that for you.
                                really starlight when are you going to get a monitor that mirror is doing you no good.

                                Comment

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