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Thread: The Stare...

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Ok picture this, I'm driving home last night, there is a man walking up ahead on the side of the road, about ten cars pass him before I get close, but for some reason I began to stare at him, just as I get to him he turns his head and looks me in the eye. I smiled and waved. How did he know I was staring at him? He didn't turn and look at the other drivers that were ahead of me. I have had similar experiences, having the feeling that someone was staring at me only to turn around and find it so. Or someone quickly averting his/her eyes. A strange human connection.
    How many times have you stared at people when they had no idea that you were staring at them? Just because he turned and looked at you doesn't mean that he knew you were looking at him. You seem to be prone to these similar experiences, seer. Seen any levitating ferns lately?

  2. #12
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You are assuming that something like this could be tested for. You are actually adding another dynamic that may influence this intuitive response.
    And we call that fallacy Special Pleading. If its that difficult to even test for, how do you even know its a real phenomenon or not?

  3. #13
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Seen any levitating ferns lately?
    Not lately, but I certainly DID see one.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  4. #14
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    And we call that fallacy Special Pleading. If its that difficult to even test for, how do you even know its a real phenomenon or not?
    Why do you think that every phenomenon is subject to scientific investigation? Why is science the last word?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  5. #15
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You are assuming that something like this could be tested for. You are actually adding another dynamic that may influence this intuitive response.
    It can. They would have people be stared at at various times and see if they felt anything (you know, the reason why you would turn around) and found no correlation whatsoever.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  6. Amen Leonhard amen'd this post.
  7. #16
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Why do you think that every phenomenon is subject to scientific investigation? Why is science the last word?
    It might not be, but in this case we'd have no way independently of finding it out. If you have faith in this phenomenon seer, then by all means believe it. I'm not going to stop you. But if you're talking to others about it, we have the right to ask questions.

    My first question is "Can we verify it?" And that means putting up controlled tests. And in those tests it just so happens that it cannot be verified.

    We know humans are very good at fooling themselves. So I have to way to plausibility you're proposing, that this phenomenon is real, even without having any plausible mechanism of happening, second that it is real but it is so construed as to perfect avoid scientific testing.

    The former I could accept, as long as we could verify it. That would be quite a surprising find. That's what the whole field of parapsychology was about back when scientists were testing if there was something to these claims. And I'm always open for such things to be discovered. I'd love to see it happen. You only introduced these explanandums, after Rogue and I mentioned that these things had been tested, and the tests were negative. That's a really bad sign seer, its a bit like patching up a bad theory with new things that are themselves untested. Each one makes it more and more implausible.

    So I don't think the phenomenon says anything about humans having psychic connection. It does say something about how we perceive the world. That seems a much simpler explanation.

  8. #17
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    It can. They would have people be stared at at various times and see if they felt anything (you know, the reason why you would turn around) and found no correlation whatsoever.
    And if a study claimed that there was no immaterial soul you would believe it? But again, you are adding an extra dynamic - the testing itself may be adding an influence not found in the wild, so to speak.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  9. #18
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    And if a study claimed that there was no immaterial soul you would believe it?
    Not sure how you'd scientifically test for the existence of the soul. Whether we have a soul or not I think belongs to a discussion of philosophy and theory of mind, and what is necessary so that we can have experiences, or that our thoughts can be real be about things, etc...

    However if it turned out that thomistic hylemorphic dualism, or cartesian dualism, or property dualism had naturalistic commitments about how the natural world ought to work that we could test for, and we did those tests, and they weren't consistent with us having immaterial souls? Then we wouldn't have them, and I'd become a physicalist.

    Though I highly doubt we'd ever be in such a situation.

  10. #19
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    And if a study claimed that there was no immaterial soul you would believe it? But again, you are adding an extra dynamic - the testing itself may be adding an influence not found in the wild, so to speak.
    I'd say that is very different since there is no way to test for that. People being able to sense being stared at... Even Middle School kids could design a test for it.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  11. #20
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I'd say that is very different since there is no way to test for that. People being able to sense being stared at... Even Middle School kids could design a test for it.
    How do you know that it is an ability that most people have, or if it is a phenomenon that only presents itself at particular times under particular conditions?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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