The Orthodox Churches practices of veneration.

[Rushing Jaws]

And do you think that perhaps this sort of veneration has become excessive in Orthodoxy and Catholicism, transgressing biblical precedent of regarding certain individuals as blessed and greatly used by God (cf. Acts 3:12)?

STM that it is not really fair to the OP to ask him about the CC. From a Catholic POV, it is not remotely excessive, and in no way transgressive. The cultus of the Saints in the CC is a recognition that “certain individuals as blessed and greatly used by God”.

Of course it was God doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul; and of course Paul recognized that, ensuring God was magnified. Do you think if the residents of Ephesus in Acts 19 turned their attention in a state of veneration magnifying Paul as well, that perhaps he might have rebuked them?

In contrast to the episode in Acts 14, which was an attempt to pay Divine honours to mere men, there is no hint of protest from St Paul. As for the more often-quoted episode of Peter & Cornelius in Acts 10, it is not clear whetherCornelius meant to pay St Peter Divine honours, or was honouring him only as sacred, but human, messenger of God. Given the lack of info, speculating about what St Paul may have thought or done at Ephesus in connection with those cloths seems pointless. In Acts 5.15: “...people brought the sick into the streets and laid them on beds and mats so that at least Peter's shadow might fall on some of them as he passed by.” There is no hint of protest from St Peter on that occasion.

Saints deserve to be held in honor and respect, love and esteem, being vehicles God used here on earth, but praying to departed saints seems excessive, falling into the category of human tradition at best.

The Church has judged otherwise. The practice is not in Scripture - but neither is there a Scriptural list of the books of the NT. Catholics accept the lawfulness of venerating and invoking the Saints, and the lawfulness, canonicity, names, number, & inspiration of the NT books, on the same basis: because the Sacred Tradition of the Church, assisted (as we believe & trust) by God the Holy Spirit, has taught the Church to do so.

Wrongful honour to the Saints is a danger, to be sure: but if we abstained from all devotional behaviour because human frailty and the malice of the devil made it perilous, we would not worship God at all. If the soul of man is kept from straying, the honour we pay to God’s Saints will not stray either.

Besides, all Christian prayer is prayer to God. Prayer to the Saints is an element in Christian prayer. It is therefore prayer to God. It is not “addressed” to God - but neither are the words we address to our fellow-Christians on Earth. Prayer addressed to God’s Saints in Heaven, has no meaning or value unless it is part of our life in Christ - and exactly the same is true of our dealings with our fellow-Christians on Earth. If it is not departing from God for Catholics in the US to avail themselves of the help of their fellow-Catholics on Earth, it is not departing from God for them to avail themselves of the help of the Saints. For God helps us through our fellows on Earth, and also through His Saints in Heaven. The help is always God’s, whether given through the Saints in Heaven, through other Catholics on Earth, through anyone else, or without any mediation at all.

This seems sufficiently vague and reminiscent of language used by those in cults when they lack biblical justification for their doctrines and practice.

Such an argument needs to be filled out, so that the Christ-centredness, and the theological and doctrinal fittingness, of invoking the Saints, can be made clear. Not coercive or unanswerable, but clear. Those who have a habit of prayer to the Saints, are ISTM better qualified than those who know of the practice only from the outside to say what it has done for them.

Of course this anecdote has more to do with you than any actual shortcomings of Protestantism, which you seem to acknowledge.

[Leonhard]

The word can be easily misunderstood, and many people don't have more than a surface understanding of things. I don't care much for "Mother of God" as a translation for "Theotokos" either, for much the same reason.

I don't understand why aside from the commonality of the term 'theotokos'. She is undoubtedly Mother of God, in both of our traditions. We understand nothing different by those terms. Christ was carried in the womb of Mary, and His humanity and flesh comes from Her. Christ's mother is Mary.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't understand why aside from the commonality of the term 'theotokos'. She is undoubtedly Mother of God, in both of our traditions. We understand nothing different by those terms. Christ was carried in the womb of Mary, and His humanity and flesh comes from Her. Christ's mother is Mary.

I am uncomfortable with it because it can be misinterpreted to mean that she is the mother of Jesus' deity, not just His humanity.

[Leonhard]

I am uncomfortable with it because it can be misinterpreted to mean that she is the mother of Jesus' deity, not just His humanity.

I've honestly yet to encounter anyone who thinks like this.