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Atheism irrefutable.

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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Uncaused reality/being/existence. Either that is God or one denies God is God.

    What is subordinate to reality/being/existence is not God.
    "Uncaused reality" is far more likely to be the infinite multiverse as proposed by many physicists rather than an infinite deity – i.e. “the idea that our Universe, and all that's contained within it, is just one small part of a larger structure”.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#40874ec6d086
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Uncaused reality/being/existence. Either that is God or one denies God is God.

      What is subordinate to reality/being/existence is not God.
      Only if you 'believe' in God.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Only if you 'believe' in God.
        Heck, I'm not sure I buy that particular line of reasoning myself.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Heck, I'm not sure I buy that particular line of reasoning myself.
          That is simply the assumption and the conclusion of that argument.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            That is simply the assumption and the conclusion of that argument.
            Yeah, but the assumption is.. odd. I'd have to think about it but on first several reads, I'm disinclined to accept it - but can't yet dispute it formally.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              Only if you 'believe' in God.
              Knowing God. If one is a Christian one actually knows God, 1 John 4:7. (Romans 8:9)
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Knowing God. If one is a Christian one actually knows God, 1 John 4:7. (Romans 8:9)
                No, they don't. They believe that they know god.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  No, they don't. They believe that they know god.
                  You believe that they only believe that they know God. Your assertion that they don't know God goes far beyond what you could ever hope to demonstrate.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    You believe that they only believe that they know God. Your assertion that they don't know God goes far beyond what you could ever hope to demonstrate.
                    Tell that to the Bible.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Tell that to the Bible.
                      The Bible doesn't make the claim that that Christians only believe they know God.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                        The Bible doesn't make the claim that that Christians only believe they know God.
                        "Thomas, because thou hast seen me thou hast believed, blessed are those that haven't seen me and yet believe." Thomas didn't believe until he knew, until he saw with his own eyes, and you are no different than Thomas when it comes to knowledge. For whatever reason, you're a believer, not a knower.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          "Thomas, because thou hast seen me thou hast believed, blessed are those that haven't seen me and yet believe." Thomas didn't believe until he knew, until he saw with his own eyes, and you are no different than Thomas when it comes to knowledge. For whatever reason, you're a believer, not a knower.
                          This was after the resurrection, but before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is irrelevant to the question at hand and to try and draw the conclusion that Christians don't know God from it is completely unwarranted.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            No, they don't. They believe that they know god.
                            So you then do not know your handle is JimL, you only believe it is.

                            No one knows anything they do not believe. Furthermore most things one thinks one knows is solely based on the witness of some else's first hand knowlegde, I know 1 + 1 = 2. I know first hand Jupiter has 4 moons one can see with good pair of 7 power binoculars. I also know Jupiter has 79 known moons. But that is not my first hand knowledge.

                            Now my knowing God is my first hand knowledge, just as it can become your own first hand knowledge too.
                            Last edited by 37818; 04-12-2020, 05:03 PM.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              This was after the resurrection, but before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It is irrelevant to the question at hand and to try and draw the conclusion that Christians don't know God from it is completely unwarranted.
                              Christians know their god the same way Muslims know their god, and every other diety worshipper knows their god, they all believe they know their god.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                So you then do not know your handle is JimL, you only believe it is.

                                No one knows anything they do not believe. Furthermore most things one thinks one knows is solely based on the witness of some else's first hand knowlegde, I know 1 + 1 = 2. I know first hand Jupiter has 4 moons one can see with good pair of 7 power binoculars. I also know Jupiter has 79 known moons. But that is not my first hand knowledge.

                                Now my knowing God is my first hand knowledge, just as it can become your own first hand knowledge too.
                                And many people believe to know, what they do not know!

                                Comment

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