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Thread: Atheism irrefutable.

  1. #11
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Thanks for being the 37818 interpreter. I can't understand his posts half of the time.
    He skips a LOT of steps - it's a lot like interpreting for a teenage girl who just broke up with her boyfriend and is hyped up on ice cream.

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  2. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    This is one of an endless chain of assertions by 37818 that his circular argument is conclusive, which it is only another version of the same circular argument to justify what he believes.
    What is that circular argument being made?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

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  4. #13
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    What is that circular argument being made?
    In all such arguments existence is not what needs proof, God does.

    Our physical existence simply exists by the objective verifiable evidence, but for God there is no objective verifiable evidence to demonstrate nor prove (?) God's existence.

    God`s identity being the self Existent existence, which is the meaning of His Name.
    First, what is the proof of God's existence?

    Second, a name does not determine 'God`s identity being the self Existent existence.'

    This a very circular assertion without and coherent argument.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-21-2018 at 07:59 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

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  5. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Atheism irrefutable is possible based on the common theistic arguments for the existence of God.



    In all such arguments existence is not what needs proof, God does.

    The argument can be made that a god is not necessary based on self evident truth. A theist needs to answer the question why truth needs a god to be true?

    For example, the simple concept of 1 + 1 = 2. Why does that need God to be true?
    Okay, I'll bite. Why does the concept of 1+1=2 need a god to exist in order to be true? Or is that even what you're saying?

  6. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  7. #15
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    He skips a LOT of steps - it's a lot like interpreting for a teenage girl who just broke up with her boyfriend and is hyped up on ice cream.
    What steps do you think are being skipped? Umcaused existence needs no gods. And what ever needs proof of existence is not God.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  8. #16
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Okay, I'll bite. Why does the concept of 1+1=2 need a god to exist in order to be true? Or is that even what you're saying?
    The only thing that matters is the existence. Existence is what makes a thing true. Existence being is the sole reason 1 + 1 = 2.

    There is a fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths are self evident. The uncaused existence.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  9. #17
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    First, what is the proof of God's existence?
    What needs proof of its existence is not God. Existence does not need proof. Uncaused existence does not need any God.

    Second, a name does not determine 'God`s identity being the self Existent existence.'
    There are two answers. One, unless God is the uncaused existence, there need not be any God at all. The second answer has to do with the Hebrew Name of God and it meaning. Strong'sHebrew [H3068] dictionary gives it as "self Existent or Eternal." In the Rational Bible, "Is."

    This a very circular assertion without and coherent argument.
    What are you referring to be this circular assertion?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  10. #18
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Okay, I'll bite. Why does the concept of 1+1=2 need a god to exist in order to be true? Or is that even what you're saying?
    No, the concept of 1+1=2 does not need a God.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  11. Amen Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  12. #19
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    No, the concept of 1+1=2 does not need a God.
    It has existence. Uncaused existence. So unless uncaused Existence is not God, then yes, God being uncaused Existence would be the fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths are self evident.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  13. #20
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    What steps do you think are being skipped? Umcaused existence needs no gods. And what ever needs proof of existence is not God.
    Step one, for starters - you have to have agreed upon assumptions OR you have to prove an assumption. Your entire argument rests on the assumption of God's existence. You are now in the position of having to find an atheist that will accept that premise as being true before beginning the argument.

    Then you have to prove that second assumption about God not needing proof of His existence (I don't even see the point in granting this - it goes no where and while technically true as worded, it's moot since God does provide proof of His existence*. Lots of it.).


































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    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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