What does it mean to receive the Holy Spirit?

[Joel]

For the first time, I think, I did a fast read through of the book of Acts in one sitting (as opposed to spread out over many sittings), and I get the impression that it normal that

1) When a person is converted, they receive the Holy Spirit,
2) Receiving the Holy Spirit is obvious to the recipient (e.g. Acts 19:2)
3) and obvious to others (accompanied by things like prophecy and speaking in tongues).

It seems to normally happen after water baptism (e.g. Acts 2:38), but sometimes before (Acts 10:47). In some cases it involves laying on of hands and/or prayer (Acts 8:15-17, 19:5). Sometimes following hearing the message (Acts 10:44, see also Gal 3:2). Is connected to obedience ("...God has given to those who obey Him." Acts 5:32)

Holy Spirit is a witness (to the recipient (Acts 15:8, Romans 8:16, )) (Acts 5:32)
is a pledge of our inheritance (Eph 1:14)
The Spirit instructed people to do or not do certain things (e.g., go here, don't go there).
Paul talks about living and acting in the Spirit.



If I were a newcomer to this planet and read Acts, and then wanted to know where real Christians are today, it seems like I should look for where Christians are doing things like prophesying and speaking in tongues. (See also Mark 16:17-18, speaking in tongues, casting out demons, miraculous healings, etc.)

This seems different from the general impression I've got that having the Holy Spirit in you is a theological point of doctrine, where it's something you know is true only because Paul tells us that it's so. So we just trust that the Spirit must be there silently, invisibly working to comfort us, sanctify us, nudge our consciences, maybe sometimes nudge the thoughts in our minds, etc.

I think I've heard of people who hold that the workings of the Spirit as described in the New Testament ceased when the Apostles died. I don't know what the basis for that is. Ceased in part or in whole? Presumably some (non-apostle) people who received the Holy Spirit during the time of the apostles were still alive after the last apostle died. What about them? Jesus promised that though he was leaving, the Holy Spirit would come instead. But only for that generation?

[Cow Poke]

At the risk of sounding overly simplistic....

I've been round and round these arguments about when one "receives the Holy Spirit" - whether at Salvation, or a "second blessing", or when one speaks in tongues....

I keep coming back to - It's not near as important how much of the Holy Spirit you have, or how you "got Him", as it is how much of YOU the Holy Spirit has.

[Sparko]

At the risk of sounding overly simplistic....

I've been round and round these arguments about when one "receives the Holy Spirit" - whether at Salvation, or a "second blessing", or when one speaks in tongues....

I keep coming back to - It's not near as important how much of the Holy Spirit you have, or how you "got Him", as it is how much of YOU the Holy Spirit has.

You can usually tell when someone is saved by the change in them. The way they act, feel, look. They don't always go around skipping and dancing and speaking in tongues but their lives do change - for the better. Mine did.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

[rogue06]

You can usually tell when someone is saved by the change in them. The way they act, feel, look. They don't always go around skipping and dancing and speaking in tongues but their lives do change - for the better. Mine did.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

I still think I have a long ways to go and it troubles me that I'm not the way I should be but then I think back to where I was and how far I've come.

[Cow Poke]

I still think I have a long ways to go and it troubles me that I'm not the way I should be but then I think back to where I was and how far I've come.

Even the Apostle Paul... For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

[Joel]

At the risk of sounding overly simplistic....

I've been round and round these arguments about when one "receives the Holy Spirit" - whether at Salvation, or a "second blessing", or when one speaks in tongues....

I keep coming back to - It's not near as important how much of the Holy Spirit you have, or how you "got Him", as it is how much of YOU the Holy Spirit has.

I'm not really looking for a debate about when does one receive the Holy Spirit. Like I said, in Acts the order and timing varied. The impression I get from reading the book is that it is obvious to you and others, so there should be no such debate.

I have no problem saying that giving yourself to God is more important than receiving gifts/power from Him. I'm just wondering if there's something I've been missing.

[Joel]

You can usually tell when someone is saved by the change in them. The way they act, feel, look. They don't always go around skipping and dancing and speaking in tongues but their lives do change - for the better. Mine did.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Like an immediate change? or gradual? or both?
The Bible seems to talking about something immediate. I am open to the possibility that I'm misinterpreting anything. (And I pray the Holy Spirit lead me away from wrong interpretations.) (I also happen to lack a big conversion event with a before and after, having been raised as a Christian.)

Another example that just came back to mind that I didn't mention before is the event in Acts with with Simon the sorcerer. Simon's request implies that something immediate and obvious happened. Otherwise Simon didn't need to make any such request and could just go around laying hands on people (or not) and telling them that the they do have the Holy Spirit. Maybe something like: "Trust me--and what the Apostles have said--despite the fact that you don't notice any thing or any change right now, the Spirit is there and will work undetectably behind the scenes to make you into a better person, perhaps gradually over time."

[One Bad Pig]

For the first time, I think, I did a fast read through of the book of Acts in one sitting (as opposed to spread out over many sittings), and I get the impression that it normal that

1) When a person is converted, they receive the Holy Spirit,
2) Receiving the Holy Spirit is obvious to the recipient (e.g. Acts 19:2)
3) and obvious to others (accompanied by things like prophecy and speaking in tongues).

It seems to normally happen after water baptism (e.g. Acts 2:38), but sometimes before (Acts 10:47). In some cases it involves laying on of hands and/or prayer (Acts 8:15-17, 19:5). Sometimes following hearing the message (Acts 10:44, see also Gal 3:2). Is connected to obedience ("...God has given to those who obey Him." Acts 5:32)

Holy Spirit is a witness (to the recipient (Acts 15:8, Romans 8:16, )) (Acts 5:32)
is a pledge of our inheritance (Eph 1:14)
The Spirit instructed people to do or not do certain things (e.g., go here, don't go there).
Paul talks about living and acting in the Spirit.



If I were a newcomer to this planet and read Acts, and then wanted to know where real Christians are today, it seems like I should look for where Christians are doing things like prophesying and speaking in tongues. (See also Mark 16:17-18, speaking in tongues, casting out demons, miraculous healings, etc.)

This seems different from the general impression I've got that having the Holy Spirit in you is a theological point of doctrine, where it's something you know is true only because Paul tells us that it's so. So we just trust that the Spirit must be there silently, invisibly working to comfort us, sanctify us, nudge our consciences, maybe sometimes nudge the thoughts in our minds, etc.

I think I've heard of people who hold that the workings of the Spirit as described in the New Testament ceased when the Apostles died. I don't know what the basis for that is. Ceased in part or in whole? Presumably some (non-apostle) people who received the Holy Spirit during the time of the apostles were still alive after the last apostle died. What about them? Jesus promised that though he was leaving, the Holy Spirit would come instead. But only for that generation?

It seems to me that receiving the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts was only explicitly obvious when the first members of a class of people believed (Pentecost - for the disciples at any rate; the Samaritans; Gentiles; and the followers of John the Baptist). I am not aware of attestations of prophecy and speaking in tongues in new believers throughout church history generally, or even today outside of Pentacostal groups. Such phenomena did occur during the "Second Great Awakening" - but as that era also produced Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Science, I'm skeptical of its provenance.

The Holy Spirit has certainly never ceased to work, and miracles have never ceased to occur; however, that work is not always going to be obvious. Remember, when Elijah talked with God, it wasn't in the fire, or the wind, or the earthquake, but in a still, small voice. In the Orthodox Church, we are utterly dependent on the Holy Spirit; without it, we're just bad theater.

[One Bad Pig]

I still think I have a long ways to go and it troubles me that I'm not the way I should be but then I think back to where I was and how far I've come.

The closer one is to the light, the more one's flaws are visible.

[Littlejoe]

Like an immediate change? or gradual? or both?
The Bible seems to talking about something immediate. I am open to the possibility that I'm misinterpreting anything. (And I pray the Holy Spirit lead me away from wrong interpretations.) (I also happen to lack a big conversion event with a before and after, having been raised as a Christian.)

I came to Christ in my early 20's. I had "walked the aisle" around age 9, after pretty much being raised in church, but true salvation was never explained to me, and so, I don't think I ever really "got it". I subsequently drifted away from church, eventually deciding that IF there was a God, then he didn't care about me or the world and wasn't worthy of worship. Years later I had an almost miraculous, life altering conversion that began me on a life long journey of seeking God and more information about him. I was hungry for the word of God and read my bible every day. I too got to the Book of Acts and read it through in almost one setting. I too was struck by the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", and began studying it. However, I was in a denomination that at that time "tongues" and Baptism of the Holy Spirit were no just frowned on but actively taught and preached against. However, after a while, I prayed about it earnestly one night, alone in a bedroom and was hit with the most incredible, awesome experience of my entire life. I have many times tried to come up with a description that would convey the "euphoria" that came with that simple prayer. All I've ever been able to come up with is it was like God split my spirit in two and poured pure, unadulterated Joy, deep within me. I literally could do nothing but lay on the floor and breathe as the waves swept over me for a bit. After it was over, I knew that I had been touched by God in a way that many have never felt. It remains THE touchstone of my Christian Walk. Because of this experience, I can never again doubt that there is a God...or that he cares deeply for us. I left that denomination and have been with the Assemblies of God since. God responds to us all in different ways, my experience may be unique to me, but it's as real to me as the day I got married...and I've never doubted I was married!

I've heard it described in my church like this: You are an empty glass without God. When you are saved, God fills up your glass. When you are Baptized in the Holy Spirit, God drops the full glass into a full bucket, totally submersing and surrounding you.

Hope that helps. I'll answer any questions you have if I can. Suffice it to say, that I truly believe there can be a separate and powerful second experience that can be wholly separate from conversion.

[Cow Poke]

Like an immediate change? or gradual? or both?

Yes!

The Bible seems to talking about something immediate. I am open to the possibility that I'm misinterpreting anything. (And I pray the Holy Spirit lead me away from wrong interpretations.) (I also happen to lack a big conversion event with a before and after, having been raised as a Christian.)

Another example that just came back to mind that I didn't mention before is the event in Acts with with Simon the sorcerer. Simon's request implies that something immediate and obvious happened. Otherwise Simon didn't need to make any such request and could just go around laying hands on people (or not) and telling them that the they do have the Holy Spirit. Maybe something like: "Trust me--and what the Apostles have said--despite the fact that you don't notice any thing or any change right now, the Spirit is there and will work undetectably behind the scenes to make you into a better person, perhaps gradually over time."

Wanna get back to this, but getting ready to teach chapter 8 "Are Miracles Possible" from Paul Little's Know Why You Believe.

[Joel]

It seems to me that receiving the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts was only explicitly obvious when the first members of a class of people believed (Pentecost - for the disciples at any rate; the Samaritans; Gentiles; and the followers of John the Baptist).

I think you are correct that it only explicitly refers to prophesying and tongues in those four places. But to receiving or being suddenly filled with the Holy Spirit in other places. (E.g. 4:31 "And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness." Or is that another way of saying prophesied?, 14:52 "And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.") The general impression I got was that it was intended to refer to the same kind of thing in all the cases, even though prophecy and tongues are mentioned explicitly four of those cases. Though it's possible I got the wrong impression. (Incidentally, I did my read all the way through Acts for a different reason, not looking for references to the Holy Spirit. This impression about the Holy Spirit was just something that happened to jump out at me as I read.)

On the day of Pentecost:
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Presumably they understood him to mean the same thing the apostles received and that Peter talked about in quoting from the prophet Joel. I guess here you would argue that it was only for the first members of this class: Jews from all nations.

Before the Sanhedrin in Ch 5:32, Peter says, "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” The Holy Spirit is a witness to the Sanhedrin? Is Peter referring only to the filling of those who were filled on the day of Pentecost?

In chapter 19, Paul found disciples at Ephesus and asked them “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” which seems to imply that Paul expected random believers he met to have had an experience that would have been obvious to them. (It turned out they only knew of John's baptism.) It ends up that "Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying." The impression is that something like that is what Paul expected believers to have had experienced, when he asked the initial question. Or at least to have had some experience to allow believers to answer with a definite "yes." Otherwise what did he expect a believer to answer? "Yeah, I once heard Peter preach the gospel and I believed. And Peter assured us that we have received the Holy Spirit. I'm not quite sure what that means, but Peter said it, and Jesus promised it, so I guess it must be true."
Also it doesn't say that these at Ephesus were the first followers of John to ever have been converted.

And (as mentioned in the OP) in multiple places in the NT it says that the Holy Spirit is a testimony or testifies to the recipient, indicating something obvious to the recipient, rather than working invisibly.
Acts 15:8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit".
Romans 8:16 "The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Eph 1:13-14 "...with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance,..."
It seems to be something the believer experiences that is evidence of the promises.
I don't know if this always means prophecy or speaking in tongues, but sounds like it should be something obvious to the person.

I am not aware of attestations of prophecy and speaking in tongues in new believers throughout church history generally, or even today outside of Pentacostal groups. Such phenomena did occur during the "Second Great Awakening" - but as that era also produced Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Science, I'm skeptical of its provenance.

I unfortunately haven't studied church history much. Probably something I should rectify.

[Cow Poke]

It seems to me that receiving the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts was only explicitly obvious when the first members of a class of people believed (Pentecost - for the disciples at any rate; the Samaritans; Gentiles; and the followers of John the Baptist). I am not aware of attestations of prophecy and speaking in tongues in new believers throughout church history generally, or even today outside of Pentacostal groups. Such phenomena did occur during the "Second Great Awakening" - but as that era also produced Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Science, I'm skeptical of its provenance.

And was rekindled in the "Jesus People" movement of the late 60's and early 70's.

The Holy Spirit has certainly never ceased to work, and miracles have never ceased to occur; however, that work is not always going to be obvious. Remember, when Elijah talked with God, it wasn't in the fire, or the wind, or the earthquake, but in a still, small voice. In the Orthodox Church, we are utterly dependent on the Holy Spirit; without it, we're just bad theater.

Yeah!

[Cow Poke]

So....

A) Know that there is, indeed, a Holy Spirit (And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost)
2) Know that Jesus prayed the Father to send Him, because Jesus would be departing this planet (And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever)
C) Allow the Holy Spirit to minister in your life (However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you)

[Zendasi]

I think I've heard of people who hold that the workings of the Spirit as described in the New Testament ceased when the Apostles died. I don't know what the basis for that is. Ceased in part or in whole? Presumably some (non-apostle) people who received the Holy Spirit during the time of the apostles were still alive after the last apostle died. What about them? Jesus promised that though he was leaving, the Holy Spirit would come instead. But only for that generation?

I haven't heard the thing about the Apostles dying but maybe they are refering to this:
"I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work."
(John 9:4)

The impression I get from reading the book is that it is obvious to you and others, so there should be no such debate.

I agree.

I have no problem saying that giving yourself to God is more important than receiving gifts/power from Him. I'm just wondering if there's something I've been missing.

It seems there's a lot of people missing this. A lot of people who think they have the holy spirit and are sure of it say irrational things. I know a guy who believes that the spirit showed him that the movie prop from the 10 commandment's movie is actually the original 10 commandments. (there's some mistakes in one of their props and it's also not the full 10 commandments, it's only a excerpt) I knew another person who thought the spirit told her there was a certain connection between the date 9/11 and the strong's number 911 (or something like that, I can't remember exactly) It concerns me that people don't think hard before they start speaking for God these days:
"20‘But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." (Deut 18:20)

EDIT: I have been concerned about this too in my life (not having the holy spirit) Therefore I have prayed a lot and struggled to try and feel it. This I think has lead to some false positives. I'm very concerned now with not representing something as God that isn't.