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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Atheism And Moral Progress

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  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Translation for Carpe: "The fact that no one can figure out what the heck I'm even talking about is evidence that my belief is true."
    Actually there are a handful of others--none on this board obviously--who've taken the time to figure out what I'm saying without insisting on dumbing the ideas down. They are among the aforementioned 5% on theology boards willing to learn something new.

    finis

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    • Originally posted by Anomaly View Post
      Actually there are a handful of others--none on this board obviously--who've taken the time to figure out what I'm saying without insisting on dumbing the ideas down. They are among the aforementioned 5% on theology boards willing to learn something new.

      finis
      Oh horsehockey. Your posture is arrogant in the extreme. I love to learn. I have all my life. I am also a teacher by profession. The effective teacher doesn't accuse the student who says "I do not understand what you are saying" of being unwilling to learn. They find other ways to express the same things so they can be understood. Let me show you the difference:

      Teacher: In a VoIP solution, QoS is critical to ensuring voice achieves an acceptable MOS.
      Student: I have no idea what you just said.
      Teacher: Sorry about that. Can you tell me which words threw you?
      Student: VoIP, QoS, and MOS
      Teacher: Yeah, acronyms can be a pain. Basically, the sentence means that, if you carry voice traffic over an IP network (VoIP), you have to pay careful attention to the quality of service (QoS) metrics to ensure that the voice can achieve an acceptable mean opinion score (MOS).
      Student: OK, now I know what the acronyms mean, but I have no idea what IP is, what quality of service metrics are, or what a mean opinion score is.
      Teacher: let's take those one at a time...
      (etc.)

      As opposed to your approach:

      Ano: I feel that Avicenna hit the nail on the head when he suggested that truth is a—obviously non-empirical—component of essence, and thus of all existents.
      Carpe: You are speaking gobbleygook to me. I have no idea what you are trying to say. Can you simplify it?
      Ano: Apparently you're one of the 95% that doesn't want to learn.

      See the difference?

      If you don't want to be a teacher, no problem. Not everyone is cut out to be one. But I'm certainly not going to buy the "you don't want to learn" poop.
      Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-13-2019, 03:54 PM.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Anomaly View Post
        Actually there are a handful of others--none on this board obviously--who've taken the time to figure out what I'm saying without insisting on dumbing the ideas down. They are among the aforementioned 5% on theology boards willing to learn something new.
        What you are saying is pretentious gobbledygook masquerading as profound thought beyond the reach of most. .
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          If you don't want to be a teacher, no problem. Not everyone is cut out to be one. But I'm certainly not going to buy the "you don't want to learn" poop.
          agreed...
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            agreed...



            Quick...lay down. You're ill!



            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post



              Quick...lay down. You're ill!



              The thing is Anomaly's responses to Shuny on the soul and body thread have been very straight forward and understandable. And I'm not ill, just too many shots of single malt.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                The thing is Anomaly's responses to Shuny on the soul and body thread have been very straight forward and understandable. And I'm not ill, just too many shots of single malt.
                Maybe this thread is an anomaly?


                (I've always thought that particular emoji has a very wicked sense about it)
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  It is hard to see what an atheist would mean by moral progress. Would she mean that what agrees with her ethical point of view is progress? Or that more of us agree with each other? I suppose the atheist could look at increasing peace and prosperity as moral progress, but again that would still revert to that which agrees with her ethical point of view (that increasing peace and prosperity is actually a moral good). So it seems that without a universal moral standard to aim at, or move towards, that there is no moral progress, merely moral change.
                  Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                    Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
                    Universal would imply that the standard is authoritative, or binding, for everyone. Even without God one could argue that, for example, the laws of logic are universal in the sense that they hold universally, regardless of whether you believe in them or not, but in an atheistic world it makes no sense to claim that some "moral standard" floating around in the sea of Platonic ideas could ever be authoritative for anyone, much less everyone. On what kind of basis would such a claim even be made?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                      Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
                      There can’t be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                        Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
                        What would that look like? Moral truths, as far as I know, only exist in minds. The mind of God could be the source of universal moral truths, since He is universal. I don't know what else could be.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          There can’t be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
                          Tass, it would not matter, the god of Islam certainly could be the source of universal moral truths even if I or you don't believe in Him. Same with the Christian God. Our personal acceptance or not tells us nothing.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            There can’t be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
                            That makes no sense at all. If there were a universal moral standard without a God, it would be a universal moral standard even if it weren't universally recognized. Just as there can be truths about the physical world that people can be wrong about.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                              Universal would imply that the standard is authoritative, or binding, for everyone. Even without God one could argue that, for example, the laws of logic are universal in the sense that they hold universally, regardless of whether you believe in them or not, but in an atheistic world it makes no sense to claim that some "moral standard" floating around in the sea of Platonic ideas could ever be authoritative for anyone, much less everyone. On what kind of basis would such a claim even be made?
                              Morality is the idea that there are things that rational beings ought to do. Things that are implicit in the nature of the rational will. You don't need an authority figure to make something right or wrong, imo. It's inherent in the nature of the act itself. If it depends on an authority, what is the basis on which the authority sets his standard? Do we revert to Divine Command Theory? You might say God IS the standard, that His character is the standard, but the question remains: How does God add to the goodness of good acts? I don't claim to know the answer. It's something i've wrestled with for a while.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
                                Morality is the idea that there are things that rational beings ought to do. Things that are implicit in the nature of the rational will. You don't need an authority figure to make something right or wrong, imo. It's inherent in the nature of the act itself. .
                                Ought to do according to what or whom? How is this implicit or inherent? What does that even mean?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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