Atheism And Moral Progress

[seer]

No, if I agree with a moral position then I agree with a moral position.

But if I see a series of moral positions that over time get closer and closer to my own, that is progress, in my opinion.


The Nazis may have thought that eliminating the Jewish race was right. Naturally, I disagree.

And there is no universal standard judging between the two opinions. Your opinion on the Jews is no more valid or correct than the Nazi's.

[seer]

Yep, same as morality.

And yet morality exists, as does moral progress.

Again if you define moral progress has that which simply agrees with you, you might as well say it is progress when a society agrees with your tastes concerning ice cream. Not a meaningful distinction.

[Stoic]

And there is no universal standard judging between the two opinions. Your opinion on the Jews is no more valid or correct than the Nazi's.

You don't think my opinion on the Jews is any more valid or correct than the Nazi's?

[Stoic]

Again if you define moral progress has that which simply agrees with you, you might as well say it is progress when a society agrees with your tastes concerning ice cream. Not a meaningful distinction.

There could also be progress in tastes, but I haven't really seen evidence of it.

[seer]

There could also be progress in tastes, but I haven't really seen evidence of it.

Sheesh, that is the point. One is no more significant than the other.

[Stoic]

Sheesh, that is the point. One is no more significant than the other.

I've seen evidence of moral progress, but I haven't seen evidence of progress in tastes.

[seer]

I've seen evidence of moral progress, but I haven't seen evidence of progress in tastes.

But you haven't seen moral progress, just moral change.

[Stoic]

But you haven't seen moral progress, just moral change.

Moral change in a particular direction.

[seer]

Moral change in a particular direction.

What direction is that?

[Stoic]

What direction is that?

In the direction of our current moral views.

[Electric Skeptic]

All you are saying is that if you agree with a moral position that is real progress. But to the Nazi eliminating the Jewish race is real progress. Who is right and why?

Nobody is right or wrong; morals are subjective. It's like saying that I think the Mona Lisa is beautiful and you do not - who is right and why?

[seer]

Nobody is right or wrong; morals are subjective. It's like saying that I think the Mona Lisa is beautiful and you do not - who is right and why?

So where does progress come in? Which is progress? The Mona Lisa is beautiful? Mona Lisa isn't beautiful?

[seer]

In the direction of our current moral views.

Why is that progress?

[Electric Skeptic]

So where does progress come in? Which is progress? The Mona Lisa is beautiful? Mona Lisa isn't beautiful?

For the umpteenth time, it is subjective. Just like beauty, just like morality.

[Stoic]

Why is that progress?

Perhaps it isn't, in your opinion. Perhaps you would prefer that our society condone things like racism, sexism, vigilantism, rape, torture, and slavery.

I see it as progress that we no longer think such things are okay, at least as a society.