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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Atheism And Moral Progress

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  • Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
    Never mind. I'm sick of this dance with you. Well done. Your tactics 'won'.
    Essentially why I stopped even trying with him some time ago. This exchange with you is rather typical. For the record, as best I can tell, subjective things are not "real" to Seer. They are just "made up" or "fake." At least, that's as much as I've been able to glean.

    Greetings, BTW. I find myself somewhat fascinated by your listed faith (i.e., "none"). Can you explain?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      That is nonsense, you can't broad brush. Most Christians I know would be in step morally with New Testament principles and the Early Church Fathers. And we don't support much of what this culture supports and you know that.
      Most christians you know is not all christians, and it is certainly not most christians. Your assertion of "most christians I know" doesn't refute any point that Tass made.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        That is nonsense, you can't broad brush. Most Christians I know would be in step morally with New Testament principles and the Early Church Fathers. And we don't support much of what this culture supports and you know that.
        “Most Christians” you know do not represent the universal moral standards to which you have referred. There are NO universal moral standards – Christian or secular. Morals have demonstrably evolved and varied from culture to culture over time.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Seems like your very statement is a moral standard you want people to hold. Very self-refuting

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Essentially why I stopped even trying with him some time ago. This exchange with you is rather typical. For the record, as best I can tell, subjective things are not "real" to Seer. They are just "made up" or "fake." At least, that's as much as I've been able to glean.
            Well of course they are made up, and I never said fake or unreal. And thanks for the cheap shot, true to form.
            Last edited by seer; 09-04-2020, 06:54 AM.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
              Seems like your very statement is a moral standard you want people to hold. Very self-refuting
              Wrong. A claim that moral standards are not universal is not in itself a moral standard.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                Wrong. A claim that moral standards are not universal is not in itself a moral standard.
                So you don't think your moral views should be universal?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  So you don't think your moral views should be universal?
                  Should be? It would be great if they were, but I don't think they are.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                    Should be? It would be great if they were, but I don't think they are.
                    So you do believe they should be universal?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      So you do believe they should be universal?
                      Of course people believe their values should be universal, otherwise they wouldn't believe them valuable. But being valuable doesn't make them objective realities, seer.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        So you do believe they should be universal?
                        I think it would be great if my moral views were universal.

                        I don't know where you get "should be" from that.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          So you don't think your moral views should be universal?
                          That’s not the point. What I said was that there are NO universal moral standards – religious or secular. Morals have demonstrably evolved and varied from culture to culture over time. This is not a “moral standard” in and of itself, it is merely an observation based upon human history.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Essentially why I stopped even trying with him some time ago. This exchange with you is rather typical. For the record, as best I can tell, subjective things are not "real" to Seer. They are just "made up" or "fake." At least, that's as much as I've been able to glean.

                            Greetings, BTW. I find myself somewhat fascinated by your listed faith (i.e., "none"). Can you explain?
                            Thanks for the greetings.

                            The main reason I stopped was his continual requests to answer something that had already been repeated addressed. I've better things to do with my time than go back through a thread to find a post I made earlier so I could copy and paste it into the thread again.

                            About my faith - 'none'. I am an agnostic weak atheist. That is:
                            - I do not believe any gods exist (the atheist bit).
                            - I do not believe no gods exist (the weak bit).
                            - I believe it is not possible to know whether or not any gods exist (the agnostic bit).
                            America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                              Seems like your very statement is a moral standard you want people to hold. Very self-refuting
                              A statement about morals or morality is not, in and of itself, a moral statement or standard.
                              America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Well of course they are made up, and I never said fake or unreal. And thanks for the cheap shot, true to form.
                                You acknowledge your position (and yes, you have indeed made the arguments that subjective things are essentially "fake" and not worthy of consideration), but then complain about a "cheap shot?"

                                That's a tad confusing.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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