Atheism And Moral Progress

[JimL]

Are you kidding Jim? Then you can't use the term either, because it could never have meaning in and of itself in your atheist world. If you think otherwise, make the case...

You are correct, that was worded poorly. What I mean to say is that the term "good" and the term "evil" have to have underlying explanations as to what is meant by the terms themselves. That which is "good" can't be defined as such simply because god says so, you would need to explain why god says so, otherwise it is arbitrary and meaningless. What I think is that you don't want to recognise that obvious fact.

[seer]

You are correct, that was worded poorly. What I mean to say is that the term "good" and the term "evil" have to have underlying explanations as to what is meant by the terms themselves. That which is "good" can't be defined as such simply because god says so, you would need to explain why god says so, otherwise it is arbitrary and meaningless. What I think is that you don't want to recognise that obvious fact.

OK Jim, define good and why it is good. I will be waiting...

[JimL]

OK Jim, define good and why it is good. I will be waiting...

You mean you wish to hear it again for the ten thousanth time?

[seer]

You mean you wish to hear it again for the ten thousanth time?

No Jim, you haven't - now define good and WHY it is good.

[JimL]

No Jim, you haven't - now define good and WHY it is good.

We have all been explaining it to you seer, probably for a decade now, and what we say in general is that "good," morally speaking, are those behaviors that are in the best interests of human society, and so evil would be it's opposite. Your definition has no meaning, other than that "good" is that which god says is good.

[seer]

We have all been explaining it to you seer, probably for a decade now, and what we say in general is that "good," morally speaking, are those behaviors that are in the best interests of human society, and so evil would be it's opposite. Your definition has no meaning, other than that "good" is that which god says is good.

Jim, that all depends on your SAY SO, and WHY is our best interests a moral good? Apart from your or our SAY SO?

[JimL]

Jim, that all depends on your SAY SO, and WHY is our best interests a moral good? Apart from your or our SAY SO?

No it isn't my say so seer, it is the resulting nature of the society in which we live. And again, your definition of good has no meaning other than god says so. Why is it good because god says so? Answer: Because god says so. Ridiculous!

[seer]

No it isn't my say so seer, it is the resulting nature of the society in which we live. And again, your definition of good has no meaning other than god says so. Why is it good because god says so? Answer: Because god says so. Ridiculous!

Jim you are being hypocritical - of course it is your SAY SO, or our SAY SO, there is nothing else. You are making a moral claim, that our best interests is in fact a moral good! So why is our best interests a moral good? Because we say so. Ridiculous!

[JimL]

Jim you are being hypocritical - of course it is your SAY SO, or our SAY SO, there is nothing else. You are making a moral claim, that our best interests is in fact a moral good! So why is our best interests a moral good? Because we say so. Ridiculous!

Seer, I can't make you understand, because you really don't want to understand. So maybe, if you just tell me what "good" means to you, other than god says so, might help you understand. Can you do that?

[Sparko]

No it isn't my say so seer, it is the resulting nature of the society in which we live. And again, your definition of good has no meaning other than god says so. Why is it good because god says so? Answer: Because god says so. Ridiculous!

Your explanation above is worse than what you claim ours is. Instead of defining Good as "aligning with God" you simply define good as "aligning with what is good for society" which is just self-referential since you still can't define what is "good for society" - you already said that even if everyone disagreed what is good it didn't matter.

So what does the word "good" actually mean, other than you trying to associate it with "society" instead of "God?"

[seer]

Seer, I can't make you understand, because you really don't want to understand. So maybe, if you just tell me what "good" means to you, other than god says so, might help you understand. Can you do that?

No Jim, you can not escape your double standard. The ONLY reason our bests interests is a moral good is because we SAY SO. There is no other reason or argument from your point of view. And if that is good enough for you (us) it is good enough for God. Stop being hypocritical...

[JimL]

Your explanation above is worse than what you claim ours is. Instead of defining Good as "aligning with God" you simply define good as "aligning with what is good for society" which is just self-referential since you still can't define what is "good for society" - you already said that even if everyone disagreed what is good it didn't matter.

So what does the word "good" actually mean, other than you trying to associate it with "society" instead of "God?"

Egad! Good aligning with god doesn't tell us anything as to what good means. What does it mean, Sparko?

[JimL]

No Jim, you can not escape your double standard. The ONLY reason our bests interests is a moral good is because we SAY SO. There is no other reason or argument from your point of view. And if that is good enough for you (us) it is good enough for God. Stop being hypocritical...

Okay, so tell me what "good" means, seer. When you and Sparko assert that good is that which comes from god, or aligns with god, what do you mean by good?

[Sparko]

Egad! Good aligning with god doesn't tell us anything as to what good means. What does it mean, Sparko?

Egad. Good aligning with "the good of society" doesn't tell us anything as to what good means. What does it mean JimL?

[seer]

Okay, so tell me what "good" means, seer. When you and Sparko assert that good is that which comes from god, or aligns with god, what do you mean by good?

No Jim, not until you give me a coherent definition of good and why that is correct (apart from your say so). You have no done so, so far.