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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Atheism And Moral Progress

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  • I will try an analogy, JimL, although knowing you, you will either try to pick it apart or simply mock it.

    Suppose you build a complex mechanism - maybe a computer. Now "good" would be when the mechanism functions the way you designed it to, working the way it should. "bad" would be when your creation did not work as it was meant to. So "good" would align with your purposes and design and "evil" would not.

    God created us and the universe. When we align with his purposes for us, we are doing "good"

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    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Egad. Good aligning with "the good of society" doesn't tell us anything as to what good means. What does it mean JimL?
      It aligns with our living conditions as a community. Now tell me what good means as you define it as gods nature?

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      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        It aligns with our living conditions as a community. Now tell me what good means as you define it as gods nature?
        I did right above.

        so according to your definition of "good" it just aligns with our living conditions? What does that even mean.

        Here are the living conditions in Mexico City:



        So you are saying that "good" is what aligns with that?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I will try an analogy, JimL, although knowing you, you will either try to pick it apart or simply mock it.

          Suppose you build a complex mechanism - maybe a computer. Now "good" would be when the mechanism functions the way you designed it to, working the way it should. "bad" would be when your creation did not work as it was meant to. So "good" would align with your purposes and design and "evil" would not.

          God created us and the universe. When we align with his purposes for us, we are doing "good"
          That's circular reasoning, Sparko. If a mechanism is intended to do murder, rape and pillage, and it functions as intended, then murdering, raping, and pillaging would be good, correct?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            It aligns with our living conditions as a community.
            But why is that good? Apart from your or our SAY SO?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              I did right above.
              No, you didn't. It was circular reasoning.
              so according to your definition of "good" it just aligns with our living conditions? What does that even mean.

              Here are the living conditions in Mexico City:



              So you are saying that "good" is what aligns with that?
              Nope, you're just being purposely idiotic.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                But why is that good? Apart from your or our SAY SO?
                Because it's the opposite of bad. Sorry to be so simplistic, it's really prima facie, common sense, but you guys don't really want to get it anyway.

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                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Because it's the opposite of bad. Sorry to be so simplistic, it's really prima facie, common sense, but you guys don't really want to get it anyway.
                  What? Jim that is just begging the question. You can't answer the question Jim because it all, at bottom, comes down to someone's say so. I have use this example in the past - an advanced alien race comes to earth to harvest us for food. They see that as a moral good (feeding themselves, like we kill and eat cows) - on what basis can you argue against that? It would only be your, or our say so, that disagrees. But our say so is no more correct or valid than their's.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    That's circular reasoning, Sparko. If a mechanism is intended to do murder, rape and pillage, and it functions as intended, then murdering, raping, and pillaging would be good, correct?
                    For that mechanism, yes.

                    A gun that is deadly is a good gun is it not? A gun that misfires is a bad gun.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      No, you didn't. It was circular reasoning.


                      Nope, you're just being purposely idiotic.
                      If anyone is being idiotic, it is you. You said "good" is what "aligns with our living conditions"

                      Care to try again?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Because it's the opposite of bad. Sorry to be so simplistic, it's really prima facie, common sense, but you guys don't really want to get it anyway.
                        so what you are saying is that you have no idea what "good" even means? Just as we suspected.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          If anyone is being idiotic, it is you. You said "good" is what "aligns with our living conditions"
                          I guess we have to rely on his say so....
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I guess we have to rely on his say so....
                            I guess.

                            I will try another analogy on him

                            Suppose there was a benevolent king who ran a kingdom where every law he made was for the good and benefit of his people so that they would have a good life and prosper. "Good" would be obeying his laws because then the people would be getting maximum benefit and enjoyment from their lives. "Evil" would be breaking the laws and the result would be chaos and suffering and not having a good life.

                            So basically you have the same thing as JimL was saying, that good is what is best for people and society. But now we have a way to judge what IS actually best for society because we have a good and loving king who knows what is best for society, even if many of the people in the kingdom do not know or agree.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              What? Jim that is just begging the question. You can't answer the question Jim because it all, at bottom, comes down to someone's say so. I have use this example in the past - an advanced alien race comes to earth to harvest us for food. They see that as a moral good (feeding themselves, like we kill and eat cows) - on what basis can you argue against that? It would only be your, or our say so, that disagrees. But our say so is no more correct or valid than their's.
                              Because we are not talking about alien races, and morals have nothing to do with alien races, morals have to do with us as human beings living together in community. I've answered the question, in a logical way from my perspective, and you have not answered it logically from your perspective and the reason that you haven't is because you can't. Defining "good" simply as that which comes from god, or that which aligns with god doesn't define what it is you mean by "good." Can you explain what you mean by "good"? When you say that god is "good", what do you mean by the term "good?"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I guess.

                                I will try another analogy on him

                                Suppose there was a benevolent king who ran a kingdom where every law he made was for the good and benefit of his people so that they would have a good life and prosper. "Good" would be obeying his laws because then the people would be getting maximum benefit and enjoyment from their lives. "Evil" would be breaking the laws and the result would be chaos and suffering and not having a good life.

                                So basically you have the same thing as JimL was saying, that good is what is best for people and society. But now we have a way to judge what IS actually best for society because we have a good and loving king who knows what is best for society, even if many of the people in the kingdom do not know or agree.
                                What matters is that the morals actually be in the best interests of human community, not that the benevolent King knows them to be in the best interests..

                                Comment

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