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Thread: Atheism And Moral Progress

  1. #801
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post



    Quick...lay down. You're ill!



    The thing is Anomaly's responses to Shuny on the soul and body thread have been very straight forward and understandable. And I'm not ill, just too many shots of single malt.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  2. #802
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    The thing is Anomaly's responses to Shuny on the soul and body thread have been very straight forward and understandable. And I'm not ill, just too many shots of single malt.
    Maybe this thread is an anomaly?


    (I've always thought that particular emoji has a very wicked sense about it)
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  3. #803
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    It is hard to see what an atheist would mean by moral progress. Would she mean that what agrees with her ethical point of view is progress? Or that more of us agree with each other? I suppose the atheist could look at increasing peace and prosperity as moral progress, but again that would still revert to that which agrees with her ethical point of view (that increasing peace and prosperity is actually a moral good). So it seems that without a universal moral standard to aim at, or move towards, that there is no moral progress, merely moral change.
    Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?

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    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
    Universal would imply that the standard is authoritative, or binding, for everyone. Even without God one could argue that, for example, the laws of logic are universal in the sense that they hold universally, regardless of whether you believe in them or not, but in an atheistic world it makes no sense to claim that some "moral standard" floating around in the sea of Platonic ideas could ever be authoritative for anyone, much less everyone. On what kind of basis would such a claim even be made?

  5. Amen seer, Adrift amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
    There canít be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
    ďHe felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.Ē - Douglas Adams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Can't there be a universal moral standard without God though?
    What would that look like? Moral truths, as far as I know, only exist in minds. The mind of God could be the source of universal moral truths, since He is universal. I don't know what else could be.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    There canít be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
    Tass, it would not matter, the god of Islam certainly could be the source of universal moral truths even if I or you don't believe in Him. Same with the Christian God. Our personal acceptance or not tells us nothing.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    There canít be a universal moral standard with a god, because there is no god that is acceptable universally.
    That makes no sense at all. If there were a universal moral standard without a God, it would be a universal moral standard even if it weren't universally recognized. Just as there can be truths about the physical world that people can be wrong about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Universal would imply that the standard is authoritative, or binding, for everyone. Even without God one could argue that, for example, the laws of logic are universal in the sense that they hold universally, regardless of whether you believe in them or not, but in an atheistic world it makes no sense to claim that some "moral standard" floating around in the sea of Platonic ideas could ever be authoritative for anyone, much less everyone. On what kind of basis would such a claim even be made?
    Morality is the idea that there are things that rational beings ought to do. Things that are implicit in the nature of the rational will. You don't need an authority figure to make something right or wrong, imo. It's inherent in the nature of the act itself. If it depends on an authority, what is the basis on which the authority sets his standard? Do we revert to Divine Command Theory? You might say God IS the standard, that His character is the standard, but the question remains: How does God add to the goodness of good acts? I don't claim to know the answer. It's something i've wrestled with for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Morality is the idea that there are things that rational beings ought to do. Things that are implicit in the nature of the rational will. You don't need an authority figure to make something right or wrong, imo. It's inherent in the nature of the act itself. .
    Ought to do according to what or whom? How is this implicit or inherent? What does that even mean?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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