Mike Pence on how presidents should behave

[Charles]

So exactly what should Pence be condeming him on if he has not done anything lately that goes against Pences' conditions for a President? Are you saying people can't change? Christianity is based on people who used to be sinners being saved and changed. Trump recently became a Christian, so why wouldn't Pence give him the benefit of the doubt?

I haven't heard him express much regret or giving any credible signs that he has changed. He has continued to lie and lies so much in general that it is very hard to get an impression of what he really thinks.

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." Donald Trump

A role model of all we have been and can be?

[Charles]

So if you work for or with anyone who does not share and uphold your personal core values then you're a hypocrite? I wonder if even Chuck the Self-Righteous is able to live up to such a lofty ideal. Even Jesus was known to associate with sinners. According to the Gospel of Chuck, that would make Jesus a hypocrite.

There is a huge difference and you know it. Pence set specific ideals particularly for the American president. He is now vice president in an administration in which the president certainly does not live up to being a role model. That is, he is now supporting and keeping someone who is not ideal due to his own criteria in power.

Back in the days when Pence was a critic of others, those ideals were important. Now they are seemingly not.

I sometimes envy the way of life in which you can cover things up with references to holy principles and apply them ad hoc.

If Jesus had said a certain kind of character should not hold a certain position and then changes his mind when it was for his own benefit, he would have been a hypocrite. But he was too wise to do se. He even said some rather wise words about the situation in which Pence has brought himself but I am afraid those words would contradict the Gospel of Mountain Man, particularly the part called The sermon in Trump Tower.

[Charles]

Jesus was much kinder to down-and-outters, and much more harsh on the religions.

Yep. That is why so many evangelicals should consider the least of these over and above their own, national or politcal interests.

[Charles]

One my favorite hymns is "Christ Receiveth Sinful Men"

According to Pence this does mean they are all equally fit to become president (unless it is to his own benefit, of course):

"If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous." https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/06/p...mns/index.html

[Sparko]

I haven't heard him express much regret or giving any credible signs that he has changed. He has continued to lie and lies so much in general that it is very hard to get an impression of what he really thinks.

You already admitted that you know of no situation where he has acted in any way that Pence said that a President should not act since becoming President. so

A role model of all we have been and can be?

Now you are moving goal posts. We were just discussing what moral failings Pence should be condemning Trump for that he has done since being in office. You got nothing.

[Charles]

You already admitted that you know of no situation where he has acted in any way that Pence said that a President should not act since becoming President. so





Now you are moving goal posts. We were just discussing what moral failings Pence should be condemning Trump for that he has done since being in office. You got nothing.

I have got tons. His family separation policy is a much larger moral failing than his sexual relations to porn stars while being married. I never saw anywhere in Pence's text that we are only talking about what the person did while being president. Do you seriously think Trump is a role model of all we have been and can be as described in Pence's text if he has stopped having sex with porn stars while being married after he was elected?

[Cow Poke]

Yep. That is why so many evangelicals should consider the least of these over and above their own, national or politcal interests.

So, is it a characteristic of ALL agnostics to be so judgmental and hateful, or are you special?


(I actually know a number of agnostics who are decent people)

[Cow Poke]

There is a huge difference and you know it. Pence set specific ideals particularly for the American president.

And, should he become president, the onus will be on him to live up to them.

Next?

[Cow Poke]

According to Pence this does mean they are all equally fit to become president (unless it is to his own benefit, of course):

"If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous." https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/06/p...mns/index.html

You hate Trump, and probably conservatives as well. Your hyper-critical judgmentalism is noted.

[Sparko]

I have got tons. His family separation policy is a much larger moral failing than his sexual relations to porn stars while being married. I never saw anywhere in Pence's text that we are only talking about what the person did while being president. Do you seriously think Trump is a role model of all we have been and can be as described in Pence's text if he has stopped having sex with porn stars while being married after he was elected?

I already said Trump became a Christian just before becoming President. That means forgiveness for all of his past sins and starting over. Since he has become President he has done nothing that Pence mentioned in his quote you started this thread with, that Pence should call him out on, or not have taken the VP job because of.

Now you are trying to drag immigration into it? Did Pence say anything about immigration too as regarding a Christian? Did Trump actually MAKE the law? Didn't Trump sign an executive order stopping that policy?

You are just determined to smear Pence by making up stuff about Trump, aren't you? I thought you didn't like it when people used ad homs? That is all this entire thread is: An ad hominem argument against Pence.

[Charles]

I already said Trump became a Christian just before becoming President. That means forgiveness for all of his past sins and starting over. Since he has become President he has done nothing that Pence mentioned in his quote you started this thread with, that Pence should call him out on, or not have taken the VP job because of.

Now you are trying to drag immigration into it? Did Pence say anything about immigration too as regarding a Christian? Did Trump actually MAKE the law? Didn't Trump sign an executive order stopping that policy?

You are just determined to smear Pence by making up stuff about Trump, aren't you? I thought you didn't like it when people used ad homs? That is all this entire thread is: An ad hominem argument against Pence.

How convenient that Trump became a Christian just before he became a Christian and then continued to lie all the time. I haven't heard him talk much about a start over or explaining his deep regrets for his past. And you did not answer wheter you think he is a role model of all we have been and all we can be.

Allow me to quote Pence again:

"If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous."

And allow me to quote to pope:

"A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian."

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-35...y-pope-francis

[Charles]

You hate Trump, and probably conservatives as well. Your hyper-critical judgmentalism is noted.

That is a non answer. What you should have noted is that I simply confronted you with Pence's words. No need to blame me for what he wrote. I am not saying, I agree with him. But if he did not mean it or if the words are not supposed to mean anything then why write it and use it to set standards when convenient but not when inconvenient?

[Sparko]

How convenient that Trump became a Christian just before he became a Christian

How could he become a Christian before becoming a Christian?

and then continued to lie all the time.

That is just your opinion. I haven't seen him lie all the time.

I haven't heard him talk much about a start over or explaining his deep regrets for his past. And you did not answer wheter you think he is a role model of all we have been and all we can be.

Doesn't matter if he is a "role model" or not. That has nothing to do with this thread. I don't like Trump as a person. I already said that elsewhere.

Allow me to quote Pence again:
"If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous."

What bad moral behaviors has Trump fallen into since becoming President? Has he had any affairs? Groped any women? Raped anyone? Stolen anything?

And allow me to quote to pope: "A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian."

Nice soundbite coming from a guy who lives inside a walled city.

[Cow Poke]

That is a non answer.

It's an observation, which I am free to express.

What you should have noted is that I simply confronted you with Pence's words.

And Pence is living up to those words - you can't seem to comprehend that.

No need to blame me for what he wrote.

I blame you for being a hate-filled hyper-critical judgmental person. That's on you.

I am not saying, I agree with him. But if he did not mean it or if the words are not supposed to mean anything then why write it and use it to set standards when convenient but not when inconvenient?

Again - there is absolutely no evidence that Pence is living up to the standard he professed.

[Sparko]

Again - there is absolutely no evidence that Pence is living up to the standard he professed.

I think you mean "isn't"