Mike Pence on how presidents should behave

[Psychic Missile]

Yes, you appear to carry that distinction.

I'm just pointing out what I think is wrong about the policy. Sorry I'm not holding Pence up as some bastion of morality. My mistake for thinking a politician might be duplicitous. Why don't you guys go make a thread about how everyone should always be tied together with their significant other like in a three-legged race lest an unfounded rumor start about wrong-doing in a Christian only subforum so you don't have to face the horrors of a dissenting opinion.

[Terraceth]

I've never heard of Mike Pence being anti-college...he's a college graduate himself...

But, i'll also chime in and say college is NOT the be all end all, and is not for everyone. My IQ has always been rated fairly high, but I struggled with school. Very few teachers could teach the way I learned best. I have a 2 year degree and though I'm certainly not rich, I have lived a decent life. My wife doesn't work outside the home and we raised 3 kids, one who is now in college.

I wouldn't be surprised if for a lot (maybe even most!) of people who go to college, the amount of money spent on the college education is less than whatever extra amount of money they got paid as a result of said education.

[Cow Poke]

I've never heard of Mike Pence being anti-college...he's a college graduate himself...

But, i'll also chime in and say college is NOT the be all end all, and is not for everyone. My IQ has always been rated fairly high, but I struggled with school. Very few teachers could teach the way I learned best. I have a 2 year degree and though I'm certainly not rich, I have lived a decent life. My wife doesn't work outside the home and we raised 3 kids, one who is now in college.

I think Pence was making that point - college isn't for everybody, but I don't think he's "anti-college".

[Cow Poke]

It harms women who need to or want to work with Pence but won't have the same opportunity as men. It's also preferable that our Vice President not peddle in [bad word].

That's nuttier than a fruitcake.

It's not intended to be a statistic you might conceivably believe, it's intended to be me telling you that this isn't a real problem because a false accusation of infidelity affecting a politician's career hardly ever happens.

In other words, you made it up and cannot support it.

That's my mistake, I didn't realize you were responding to a reply directed at someone else. Do you not agree with Sparko that the possibility of a false accusation of infidelity justifies Pence's policy?

That's a really weird way of putting it -- the possibility of a false accusation is minimized by such a policy, but it's not the sole reason it's done.

What's the evidence?

More than you offered.

[Cow Poke]

I'm just pointing out what I think is wrong about the policy. Sorry I'm not holding Pence up as some bastion of morality. My mistake for thinking a politician might be duplicitous. Why don't you guys go make a thread about how everyone should always be tied together with their significant other like in a three-legged race lest an unfounded rumor start about wrong-doing in a Christian only subforum so you don't have to face the horrors of a dissenting opinion.

wow

[lilpixieofterror]

It harms women who need to or want to work with Pence but won't have the same opportunity as men. It's also preferable that our Vice President not peddle in • Edited by a Moderator •.

That’s a great bald assertion that I don’t think you can prove and just seem to believe it because your ideology tells you to. I follow the same ideals with the men I work with too. Am I too harming their careers or am I protecting the integrity of my subordinates and supervisors to keep roomers and improper conduct to a minimum? Careers are destroyed by sexual misconduct and it doesn’t take many false roomers to spread to undermine a supervisor or even get them fired by perception of improper sexual conduct. This tells me you have no a clue how to run a work center and the importance of not giving others reasons to doubt your decisions.

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm just pointing out what I think is wrong about the policy. Sorry I'm not holding Pence up as some bastion of morality. My mistake for thinking a politician might be duplicitous. Why don't you guys go make a thread about how everyone should always be tied together with their significant other like in a three-legged race lest an unfounded rumor start about wrong-doing in a Christian only subforum so you don't have to face the horrors of a dissenting opinion.

That’s a good strawman you constructed, but you have no clue how to run a shop as this post shows. Do you have any evidence of harmed careers because I can point out lots of runioned careers based upon sexual misconduct or even roomers of sexual misconduct. Kinda hard to be accused of ‘sleeping my way to the top’ when I am never alone in a room with a male supervisor or commander, isn’t it?

[Charles]

How is it his problem? Why should he care what some random foreigner thinks?

Nice platitude.

I just love people with no objective moral standard pontificating on moral standards.

It is possible to set an ideal and simultaneously acknowledge reality. If Pence himself were President and not living up to his own standards, I can understand why that would be seen as hypocritical. Refusing to serve because someone is imperfect is asinine, because everyone's imperfect. Get off your high horse, already.

A contradiction is a contradiction no matter who points to it. Sorry.

I have argued quite a lot for objective moral standards so I surprised to see you suggest the opposite. It seems to me that in political discussion those who support Trump are quite willing to change their standards and go for lower ideals if the situation calls for it.

I also allow myself to wonder what those ideals about a role model are worth if in reality you go for a man who has been married three times and had relationships with porn stars while being married. If calling for others to not have double standards is being on the high horse I think we are in trouble. Perhaps you should rather consider what you think about Pence's contradiction. As I pointed out you did not make it go away.

[Tassman]

A contradiction is a contradiction no matter who points to it. Sorry.

I have argued quite a lot for objective moral standards so I surprised to see you suggest the opposite. It seems to me that in political discussion those who support Trump are quite willing to change their standards and go for lower ideals if the situation calls for it.

I also allow myself to wonder what those ideals about a role model are worth if in reality you go for a man who has been married three times and had relationships with porn stars while being married. If calling for others to not have double standards is being on the high horse I think we are in trouble. Perhaps you should rather consider what you think about Pence's contradiction. As I pointed out you did not make it go away.

Pence is the total hypocrite when it comes to Trump's philandering and lies.

With regard to Bill Clinton he said of the role of the president that a president is not "just the like the rest of us., "If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous.

"Throughout our history, we have seen the presidency as the repository of all of our highest hopes and ideals and values. To demand less is to do an injustice to the blood that bought our freedoms."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/06/p...mns/index.html

[One Bad Pig]

A contradiction is a contradiction no matter who points to it. Sorry.

I have argued quite a lot for objective moral standards so I surprised to see you suggest the opposite.

In turn, I am surprised at your reaction. As an agnostic, what basis do you have for objective moral standards?

It seems to me that in political discussion those who support Trump are quite willing to change their standards and go for lower ideals if the situation calls for it.

Then you misunderstand. That I perforce live with a situation which is less than ideal in no way means my ideals have lowered.

I also allow myself to wonder what those ideals about a role model are worth if in reality you go for a man who has been married three times and had relationships with porn stars while being married.

I wonder what world you live in. I have never, at any level of politics, been able to vote for anyone I can consider a role model; it always comes down to the least worst option. Trump is about as far from ideal as it gets. I dare say Pence feels much the same.

If calling for others to not have double standards is being on the high horse I think we are in trouble. Perhaps you should rather consider what you think about Pence's contradiction. As I pointed out you did not make it go away.

As I, in turn, pointed out, you have failed to prove a contradiction. You'd need actual evidence for that. All you've got is an argument from silence.

[One Bad Pig]

I'm just pointing out what I think is wrong about the policy.

Oh, cut the passive-aggressive crap already. You know perfectly well what you were trying to imply.

[Cow Poke]

Pence is the total hypocrite when it comes to Trump's philandering and lies.

With regard to Bill Clinton he said of the role of the president that a president is not "just the like the rest of us., "If you and I fall into bad moral habits, we can harm our families, our employers and our friends. The President of the United States can incinerate the planet. Seriously, the very idea that we ought to have at or less than the same moral demands placed on the Chief Executive that we place on our next door neighbor is ludicrous and dangerous.

"Throughout our history, we have seen the presidency as the repository of all of our highest hopes and ideals and values. To demand less is to do an injustice to the blood that bought our freedoms."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/06/p...mns/index.html

He's just a heartbeat away from being able to demonstrate what real leadership is. That probably terrifies you.

[Sparko]

I've never heard of Mike Pence being anti-college...he's a college graduate himself...

But, i'll also chime in and say college is NOT the be all end all, and is not for everyone. My IQ has always been rated fairly high, but I struggled with school. Very few teachers could teach the way I learned best. I have a 2 year degree and though I'm certainly not rich, I have lived a decent life. My wife doesn't work outside the home and we raised 3 kids, one who is now in college.

I was just arguing with some guy on facebook who was complaining about not being able to get a job despite having two master degrees in History. When I questioned him, he said the only path open to him would be in Academia like being a teacher and there are no jobs in teaching and even if he could he wouldn't want to be a teacher because they don't get paid well and are disrespected.

I felt sorry for him, but he is the one who chose his path, spent all that money on college, only to end up with a degree that he doesn't want to use!

He told me how "lucky" I was because I had a nice cushy job in the IT sector. I told him I didn't even have a college degree in that. I just had a certificate in electronics and the rest is self-taught. My total cost of education was a few thousand dollars. I did go to college later for graphic design. But that too was just a community college, and I can honestly say I didn't learn squat there. I knew more than the teachers did and half the time I was showing them how to do things.

[Sparko]

That’s a good strawman you constructed, but you have no clue how to run a shop as this post shows. Do you have any evidence of harmed careers because I can point out lots of runioned careers based upon sexual misconduct or even roomers of sexual misconduct. Kinda hard to be accused of ‘sleeping my way to the top’ when I am never alone in a room with a male supervisor or commander, isn’t it?

It's "rumors" not "roomers"

carry on..

[One Bad Pig]

I was just arguing with some guy on facebook who was complaining about not being able to get a job despite having two master degrees in History. When I questioned him, he said the only path open to him would be in Academia like being a teacher and there are no jobs in teaching and even if he could he wouldn't want to be a teacher because they don't get paid well and are disrespected.

I felt sorry for him, but he is the one who chose his path, spent all that money on college, only to end up with a degree that he doesn't want to use!

He told me how "lucky" I was because I had a nice cushy job in the IT sector. I told him I didn't even have a college degree in that. I just had a certificate in electronics and the rest is self-taught. My total cost of education was a few thousand dollars. I did go to college later for graphic design. But that too was just a community college, and I can honestly say I didn't learn squat there. I knew more than the teachers did and half the time I was showing them how to do things.

Why would you get one Master's degree in History (let alone two) if you didn't want to go into academia?