Blue Waves and Red Waves

[carpedm9587]

Why are you being so emotional?

I can't help it...

I'm of French descent...married to an Italian...with Catholic roots...

[carpedm9587]

I have several cohorts who have repatriated to Belize, where their social security checks ALONE pay for their homestead, gardener, caretaker.... They're kinda building their own little community, and I'll be going down there in the Spring to check out possibilities. From there, yes - we would be into travel, using our Belize (or wherever) homestead as our base of operations.

Flights to and from Australia... um.. you cross the international dateline and that can really mess up your calendar!

I just met a man who was doing exactly that. It is on my list to investigate.

[rogue06]

I have several cohorts who have repatriated to Belize, where their social security checks ALONE pay for their homestead, gardener, caretaker.... They're kinda building their own little community, and I'll be going down there in the Spring to check out possibilities. From there, yes - we would be into travel, using our Belize (or wherever) homestead as our base of operations.

Flights to and from Australia... um.. you cross the international dateline and that can really mess up your calendar!

Got friends who retired to Costa Rica like that but even the person who sold them the real nice house they live in advised them to keep a bug out bag small valuables close by in case things went south real quick and they had to flee the country

[One Bad Pig]

SOME people on the left (I am one of them) believe we need to give the illegals already here who have established roots (because we let them) a path to citizenship. We believe that for many rational reasons (cost, economy, justice, etc.). We also believe that we need to take a firmer stance of future illegal immigration - but also believe walls are not going to do the job (again, for some pretty rational reasons).

Thanks.

SOME on the left have advocated [to abolish ICE] - and it was quickly resisted by others on the left. We know we need an immigration force. We also need to make sure they are well supervised and acting humanely.

Some, who are rather prominent. I'm glad there's some resistance by others on the left.

While there are SOME people who beieve in "open borders," it is (as best I can tell) a small fraction of the left. Most of us believe we do need to have borders - or we should abandon the idea of "countries" altogether.

Ok.

Nor is it "dominated by the left."

Er, yes it is - and it's not even close.

The situation we have with the media today is unprecedented in my lifetime.

What's been unprecedented is the idea that the media is unbiased. Up until, oh, a century ago, the media was openly and unashamedly biased - some on one side, some on the other.

While the MSM is certainly left of center, never has it served as the media outlet for a particular party or president.

Well, not officially (outside of WW I, anyway). It has, to a large extent, been markedly more favorable to the Democratic Party than not.

Stories are gone after because they get eyeballs.

Yes, that is true.

But today we have at least one media outlet that has become the propaganda machine of the administration, in a fairly tight symbiotic relationship. And a large swath of our country is listening to the propaganda, and swallowing it whole. It's actually a bit frightening.

That you believe this IS a bit frightening.

Some of it is reflected above. My position on immigration is that the existing problem of 11M illegal immigrants within our borders is a function of two things: the attraction of our country (wealth, jobs etc.) and the poor enforcement of our poorly structured immigration laws. As a consequence, we have let people stay for decades, develop deep roots, and become part of our economy and communities. If we are going to share responsibility for this reality, we are going to give these existing people (if they have no criminal involvement) a one-time, an arduous path to citizenship (more than the norm, reflecting their illegal status) so as to be minimally disruptive to our economy and communities.

Then we need to address illegal immigration going forward, and we need to take a zero tolerance stance - anyone found within the country that cannot prove they have been here since before today, and anyone who is criminally involved, needs to be deported. If they are discovered crossing the border, they need to be bused/escorted to a legal entry point and simply put in line (on the other side of the border) to wait their turn to apply for sanctuary/entry.

From a larger scale view, there is a simple reality at work here. When you have two countries in proximity, there will be an inevitable flow from the less desirable country to the more desirable country. The greater the disparity, the greater the flow.

There's not a whole lot to disagree with here.

A wall on a fragment of the U.S. border is not going to solve this problem. The lower 48 has a border that is 8,878 miles long. It includes ocean, river, wood, desert, mountain, etc. It includes native reservations that traverse the borders at several places. Put a wall at one place and the tide will shift around the wall - or under the wall - or over the wall. People tunnel. People walk. People swim and boat. Even if you could build a wall that could not be climbed or tunneled under, the wall will end somewhere, unless you propose a wall around the entire U.S. People will find a way to go around. Black market businesses will arise to help these people. They will use drones or planes/parachutes or catapults/parachutes to go over. They will use boats to go around. They will perfect fake IDs to fly legal flights in. They will find a way.

This is true. However, a wall would present a significant obstacle.

There is one and only one way to stem the tide: the difference between the two countries must be minimized. The more parity there is between the two countries, the less desirable the trip will be. Then, even modest blocks will be adequate dissuade the vast majority. Right now this country is home to 1/3 of the world's wealth. So we wonder that people are trying hard to get in? If we want to control immigration, we should be investing in programs to help the countries around us, and throughout the world, to get their legs under them, and become developed countries with solid economies. And we might, while we are at it, take steps to undo some of the damage American policies and business practices have done to many of these countries.

Oh, I don't wonder at all why people want to come here. The US has been helping underdeveloped countries for quite some time now, with financial aid and less tangible assistance.

[Cow Poke]

Got friends who retired to Costa Rica like that but even the person who sold them the real nice house they live in advised them to keep a bug out bag small valuables close by in case things went south real quick and they had to flee the country

Yeah, I think that was one of the considerations for Belize - a little more stable.

[Zymologist]

Obviously a lot can happen between now and 2020 election, but carpe, if you do move out of country then, I wish you well.

[Cow Poke]

I just met a man who was doing exactly that. It is on my list to investigate.

It's beautiful - been there on mission trips - and not that far away by plane. I'm trying to find a place cheap enough that I could fly the kids down for visits when I want to. (If I pay for the flights, I can make sure the return trip is ... um... "soon enough" )

[Leonhard]

This is true. However, a wall would present a significant obstacle.

You'd have to close all the gates that have been granted to farmers who have to till soil on the other side of the wall. I mean look at this Texan farmer. You telling me that the US is ready to line up guards every time he goes out and in?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/blogs/loo...183312787.html

[carpedm9587]

Thanks.

Some, who are rather prominent. I'm glad there's some resistance by others on the left.
Ok.

Er, yes it is - and it's not even close.

OBP, the country is filled with people who have been poisoned by the Wormtongue effect of Fox, which has been spewing this tripe for over a two decades now. Yes, the MSM is left of center. It is not a propaganda outlet of the left. It does not have the focused agenda of outlets like Brietbart and Fox. You have to go to outlets like Mother Jones and CNN (respectively) to find their ilk.

What's been unprecedented is the idea that the media is unbiased. Up until, oh, a century ago, the media was openly and unashamedly biased - some on one side, some on the other.

While there have been periods of bias at one time or another, and certainly bias outlets throughout our history, I grew up in the age of Cronkite. I remember a time when broadcast news was a public service requirement - not the variation on reality TV it has become today.

Well, not officially (outside of WW I, anyway). It has, to a large extent, been markedly more favorable to the Democratic Party than not.

As I acknowledge, it leans left. But then there was a time when we had left, middle, and right in both parties. In the last few decades that has changed as the Republican party has shifted further and further right, and the Dems have shifted further and further left. That trend traces back to the great Depression, but saw a marked increase with the civil rights era, and then again after Watergate. As a consequence, a left-lean that did not have much party impact has become a left-lean that favors a party. From where I sit - the parties moved - not the media. I cannot remember a time when the media did not have a left-lean.

Yes, that is true.

That you believe this IS a bit frightening.

That you do NOT see it is frightening. Fox has become the media arm of the White House. It is where Trump gets many of his ideas (there is extensive documentation of the link between many of his tweets and the programming on Hannity and Fox and Friends), and the articles and stories (not to mention the talking heads) hawk policy with a strongly favorable spin to the administration. Any criticism of the president is highly muted, if present at all.

There's not a whole lot to disagree with here.

This is true. However, a wall would present a significant obstacle.

I think most people who think this have not actually been to the border and seen the situation there. A part of the border is river - so the wall would have to be on our side, cutting us off from the river. Other parts are reservation land and the native population won't permit the wall through their land (for obvious reasons, I would hope). Putting the wall all around the reservation would significantly increase it's cost, and cut that part of America, along with its citizens, off from the rest of the country. It's not even clear that is legal. It would be effectively ceding part of the U.S. to Mexico or Canada. And there IS a significant wall along a good swatch of the border. I don't argue that putting a wall along the most easily accessible parts of the border is a bad idea. I argue with the idea that we're going to put some kind of wall from the Pacific to the Gulf and it is going to have an effect anywhere near its cost. The money could be better spent on other techniques, IMO.

Oh, I don't wonder at all why people want to come here. The US has been helping underdeveloped countries for quite some time now, with financial aid and less tangible assistance.

The aid has been ineffective, IMO, and the money is being cut by this administration. Furthermore, we are pulling out of the one international agency that might be pushed/leveraged to help in this area. And Trump is cutting legal immigration levels at a time when we are actually at a fairly low level of unemployment, increasing the pool of people who will try to get in illegally. IMO, his approach makes no sense on multiple fronts. All he is doing is stoking anger against "them" as a political ploy to keep his base engaged and loving him.

[carpedm9587]

Obviously a lot can happen between now and 2020 election, but carpe, if you do move out of country then, I wish you well.

Thanks, Zym.

It's not all bad. Frankly, I've seen much of this country. I'm ready to go play in the world.

[rogue06]

Yeah, I think that was one of the considerations for Belize - a little more stable.

I was there a month before it became Belize when it was still British Honduras and then a few months later.smiley old.gif

The situation along the border with Guatemala wasn't completely ... stable.

[Sparko]

There's another version of it here. If what is reported here is the entire story, then this dismissal was inappropriate, IMO.

I am betting this guy switches sides after that. +1 Red.

[Sparko]

I am moving to New Zealand so I can get free stuff. And because hobbits and Xena.

[Cow Poke]

I am moving to New Zealand so I can get free stuff. And because hobbits and Xena.

Say hello to Xena and Gabby!

[Sparko]

Say hello to Xena and Gabby!

Me and Joxer the Magnificent are going to have a beer.