What does it mean to "make your call and election sure"?

[GoBahnsen]

There you go, another example of the carefulness of Calvinism, stating a view about the inscrutable ways of God, yet softening that stance by defending the perspicuity of those ways as conveyed by Scripture!

Lets not be wishy washy, it gets one nowhere, ask Job if you don't believe me. God had to force him to man up and speak his mind.

There's no two ways about it, Christian Theology is a hard slog, Christ stated that the full implications would be hard for a novice to absorb and bear, and that the Holy Spirit would lead into truth as competency increased.

How about it if a comprehensive view was laid out, without contradictions? Would you examine it with an open mind? Even if it meant setting aside all you have invested in a view beset with “apparent contradictions”? (What kind of hermeneutics allows the presence of apparent contradictions, paradoxes? That itself should be a warning of an inadequate construct).

Would you examine views supported by fresh discoveries of historical evidence, documentary proof, for consideration towards belief, even if it mean giving up investments in denominational relationships?

Such views have already been posted here by Tercel, Arminian and their colleagues, but in parts. Would you consider, for acceptance, a robust, coherent, comprehensive collation of these views if they form a logical understanding of the material found in the Biblical texts?



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One thing you might not know about me is that I used to be Arminian in my theology. Studied to be a pastor in that same view. I don't want to get drawn into a "fleshly" debate, which is often what takes place in here. One of the few who did not do that was former Tweb member Peryinol (spelling?). He was a bright, articulate, kind hearted Arminian.

But there is no need to address me as if you think I have always been Reformed and that maybe I should consider something that is more cogent, like Arminianism.

[GoBahnsen]

We NEED to be right, because our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against an Enemy who would love to prevent the words from taking root. To sink in, our words should be cogent, AND lucid. God's word is like fire, a hammer that breaks even rocks.

We need to be right, but we are never going to be 100% right....right? All of us are a work in progress. It might be safe to say that most of us will end up realizing that we thought we were right, but had to adjust our view after we learned more. I do relate to the times in my life where I was so convinced that I was right, that I was chomping at the bit to crusade for my viewpoint and hopefully spare many a Christian from self-deceit.

Those times were very exciting to me and I felt important. At this stage in my career, I hope I am done with those times. I will just give my viewpoint if I feel like it and that's it.

[footwasher]

Those who don' t know history are destined to repeat it. Edmund Burke

History tells us that almost a million people were called out of Egypt, and only two were elected. There's going to be plenty of spare room, in Heaven. And several surprised people.

Matthew 7
23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

The Israelites were drinking from the Rock, asked to risk their lives, trust in God, disobeyed the instruction and perished.

Today, the instruction isn't even preached...

We need to be right, but we are never going to be 100% right....right? All of us are a work in progress. It might be safe to say that most of us will end up realizing that we thought we were right, but had to adjust our view after we learned more. I do relate to the times in my life where I was so convinced that I was right, that I was chomping at the bit to crusade for my viewpoint and hopefully spare many a Christian from self-deceit.

Those times were very exciting to me and I felt important. At this stage in my career, I hope I am done with those times. I will just give my viewpoint if I feel like it and that's it.

[GoBahnsen]

Those who don' t know history are destined to repeat it. Edmund Burke

History tells us that almost a million people were called out of Egypt, and only two were elected. There's going to be plenty of spare room, in Heaven. And several surprised people.

Matthew 7
23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

The Israelites were drinking from the Rock, asked to risk their lives, trust in God, disobeyed the instruction and perished.

Today, the instruction isn't even preached...

What instruction are you referring to? The gospel is plenty preached, though often diluted. Only God knows when that diluted form has no saving power.

I appreciate your zeal footwasher. I hope you hold on to that. And BTW, when I say I hope I am done crusading for my viewpoint, I am referring to views within the household of Faith. I am not done crusading for the gospel, nor should any Christian ever be done there. But to feel the need to convince fellow Christians of doctrines such as Election and just how it operates, I don't want to get into ugly battles over that.

Jaltus was another respectful Arminian, though he would have his emotional blow ups at times, like so many of us. I outdid him in that department. You have a nice Saturday my friend.

[GoBahnsen]

I think another thing it means, is to take our faith very seriously. This isn't a small thing, being saved from God's wrath against sin. Keep it real. Don't make your faith a mere "add on" in life. It means everything!

[KingsGambit]

I think another thing it means, is to take our faith very seriously. This isn't a small thing, being saved from God's wrath against sin. Keep it real. Don't make your faith a mere "add on" in life. It means everything!

I would agree with this. Well put.

[footwasher]

The goal wasn't just to reach the Promised Land. The goal was to be a blessing to the world. But even those who entered the Land were not given rest by Joshua. It remained for Jesus to give the real rest, the ability to be that blessing to the world (always think in those terms). To be a blessing, we have to be IN Christ. Then we can give our live for others just as He gave His life for the world.

THIS IS THE INSTRUCTION: UNLESS A SEED DIES IT CANNOT LIVE.

Remember, it is a privilige, an opportunity, not an obligation.

Luke 7
25I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

This is the Gospel, this is the real Good News...

What instruction are you referring to? The gospel is plenty preached, though often diluted. Only God knows when that diluted form has no saving power.

I appreciate your zeal footwasher. I hope you hold on to that. And BTW, when I say I hope I am done crusading for my viewpoint, I am referring to views within the household of Faith. I am not done crusading for the gospel, nor should any Christian ever be done there. But to feel the need to convince fellow Christians of doctrines such as Election and just how it operates, I don't want to get into ugly battles over that.

Jaltus was another respectful Arminian, though he would have his emotional blow ups at times, like so many of us. I outdid him in that department. You have a nice Saturday my friend.

[GoBahnsen]

The goal wasn't just to reach the Promised Land. The goal was to be a blessing to the world. But even those who entered the Land were not given rest by Joshua. It remained for Jesus to give the real rest, the ability to be that blessing to the world (always think in those terms). To be a blessing, we have to be IN Christ. Then we can give our live for others just as He gave His life for the world.

THIS IS THE INSTRUCTION: UNLESS A SEED DIES IT CANNOT LIVE.

Remember, it is a privilige, an opportunity, not an obligation.

Luke 7
25I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

This is the Gospel, this is the real Good News...

Ok...I always thot it was Jesus dying for my sin and rising again the 3rd day for my justification. And I do feel like I am obligated to follow Him. And I agree that it is a privilege and an opportunity.

[nico]

The elect are those who were called and believed. Be sure you're a believer. That's important stuff to know.

[KingsGambit]

The elect are those who were called and believed. Be sure you're a believer. That's important stuff to know.

That kind of reminds me of when the disciples asked Jesus if few or many would be saved, and Jesus didn't answer. He just said "Strive to enter!" From our perspective, that is what we need to focus on, and should be our main takeaway from the verses in the OP (although all the other stuff is certainly interesting to discuss).

[GoBahnsen]

That kind of reminds me of when the disciples asked Jesus if few or many would be saved, and Jesus didn't answer. He just said "Strive to enter!" From our perspective, that is what we need to focus on, and should be our main takeaway from the verses in the OP (although all the other stuff is certainly interesting to discuss).

Yeah...no need to turn the thread into the Arminian/Calvinistic debate on election. That's a good debate when done in humility, but making our calling and election sure, is something both sides need to be doing, no matter the perspective one has, Cal or Arm.

[GoBahnsen]

Yeah...no need to turn the thread into the Arminian/Calvinistic debate on election. That's a good debate when done in humility, but making our calling and election sure, is something both sides need to be doing, no matter the perspective one has, Cal or Arm.

But GoBahnsen...since the Calvinist believes his or her election is entirely out of his control or say so, then why would he need to make it sure?

[pereynol]

To whom does he need to "make it sure?" Who is in need of assurance---God, or himself?

[GoBahnsen]

To whom does he need to "make it sure?" Who is in need of assurance---God, or himself?

Pereynol...is that you? Welcome back my friend.

[pereynol]

Pereynol...is that you? Welcome back my friend.

Yes, it's me; very, very good to find you here again. I hope you've been well. Just registered for the new T-Web tonight....