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Was salvation originally intended to be exclusively for Jews?

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  • Was salvation originally intended to be exclusively for Jews?

    A Bible study teacher at my church who leads a lot of women's study groups has been teaching some things that just don't sound right to me. My mother, who attends this woman's classes, has told me that she taught that Jesus died only for the Jews, and that after the Jews rejected him God decided to allow gentiles to be saved after all. She said she's glad the Jews rejected him because if they hadn't, we would have had no hope. I've never heard this teaching before.

    Has anyone heard this before? Where does it come from? What do I tell her, or ask her?
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  • #2
    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
    A Bible study teacher at my church who leads a lot of women's study groups has been teaching some things that just don't sound right to me. My mother, who attends this woman's classes, has told me that she taught that Jesus died only for the Jews, and that after the Jews rejected him God decided to allow gentiles to be saved after all. She said she's glad the Jews rejected him because if they hadn't, we would have had no hope. I've never heard this teaching before.

    Has anyone heard this before? Where does it come from? What do I tell her, or ask her?
    I can see how someone might come to that conclusion from a selective reading of Scripture (Mt. 10:5, John 12:20ff, the lack of proselytizing to Greeks in Acts until after the stoning of Stephen), but one must ignore other passages in order to do so (Luke 2:32, Matthew's (ch. 12) quotation of Isaiah, etc.).
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #3
      And Mathew 21...

      33“Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.

      35“The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

      38“But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

      40“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

      41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

      42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

      “ ‘The stone the builders rejected

      has become the cornerstone;

      the Lord has done this,

      and it is marvelous in our eyes’h ?

      43“Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”i

      ---
      But people forget that God is omniscient. He knew and planned for the Jews rejecting Jesus and set everything up that way to begin with.


      Not to mention Paul says that the Jews did not reject the Messiah. A remnant accepted him. The Jews were always rejecting God throughout the OT but there was always a faithful remnant.

      Romans 11

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: faithful remnant -

        2 Kings 19:30-31
        Is. 10:20-22
        Jer. 31
        Ez. 6:8
        Joel 2:32
        Amos 5:15
        Mic 2:12
        Zeph. 2:7-9
        Zech 8:11-12

        Sort of a prominent theme.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Jesus was sent in accord with prophecy in connection with the transgressions of the Jews (Rom 5:20-21, Rom 11:26-27). So the prophecies relating to his death on the cross and implied resurrection were in accord with the promises and plan expressed through the prophets. (But many details, such as resurrection of the Messiah, were not 'explained' in prophecy, as far as I can tell.) This would atone for their sin, to those who came by faith. But by aspects not explicit in prophecy, Gentiles were also to be reconciled with God through the Christ.

          A remnant was to be saved (Isa 10:20-22). This would fulfill the promises to the forefathers.

          The inclusion of Gentiles was mentioned in some scattered passages -- for example the promise(s) to Abraham and some passages mentioned in Romans 15. The role of the Messiah in this was not explicit in scripture, as far as I can tell. But Paul, notably, understood that all people who came by faith in the Messiah would be reconciled to God.

          Note that a big element of Paul's ministry to Gentiles was to lead Jews to Christ with the aid of jealousy (Rom 11:14-16).
          Last edited by mikewhitney; 08-16-2018, 02:13 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
            A Bible study teacher at my church who leads a lot of women's study groups has been teaching some things that just don't sound right to me. My mother, who attends this woman's classes, has told me that she taught that Jesus died only for the Jews, and that after the Jews rejected him God decided to allow gentiles to be saved after all. She said she's glad the Jews rejected him because if they hadn't, we would have had no hope. I've never heard this teaching before.

            Has anyone heard this before? Where does it come from? What do I tell her, or ask her?
            I think it's very short sighted to think that Christ's only work was salvation...much less salvation of only the Jews. Paul said that in Christ, God was at work to “reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross” (Colossians 1:19,20). Salvation was surely "part" of the plan, but not the whole plan. If Christ came to reconcile himself (God) to all things, that would surely imply the Gentiles as well as the Jews.
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              . . . But people forget that God is omniscient. He knew and planned for the Jews rejecting Jesus and set everything up that way to begin with.
              Amen Sparky! God knew from the beginning what HE was doing and how HE was going to do it.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                A Bible study teacher at my church who leads a lot of women's study groups has been teaching some things that just don't sound right to me. My mother, who attends this woman's classes, has told me that she taught that Jesus died only for the Jews, and that after the Jews rejected him God decided to allow gentiles to be saved after all. She said she's glad the Jews rejected him because if they hadn't, we would have had no hope. I've never heard this teaching before.

                Has anyone heard this before? Where does it come from? What do I tell her, or ask her?
                20-some years ago, I heard stuff along those lines from Bob Enyart. Interesting character. Not sure what he's up to now, but back then, he was teaching a combination of Hyper-Dispensationalism + Theonomy + Openness Theology + (I think) Full Preterism.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  20-some years ago, I heard stuff along those lines from Bob Enyart. Interesting character. Not sure what he's up to now, but back then, he was teaching a combination of Hyper-Dispensationalism + Theonomy + Openness Theology + (I think) Full Preterism.

                  As far as I can tell those are mutually exclusive positions.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                    A Bible study teacher at my church who leads a lot of women's study groups has been teaching some things that just don't sound right to me. My mother, who attends this woman's classes, has told me that she taught that Jesus died only for the Jews, and that after the Jews rejected him God decided to allow gentiles to be saved after all. She said she's glad the Jews rejected him because if they hadn't, we would have had no hope. I've never heard this teaching before.

                    Has anyone heard this before? Where does it come from? What do I tell her, or ask her?
                    The first thing that caught my attention here was that you're getting this information second hand. Not that your mother isn't a good virtuous wonderful person, but she may have missed something in the overall context of the discussion.


                    I have had times when a third party would come ask me about something I had allegedly said in a sermon or class.. in the case of a sermon, I've been able to allow them to hear what I actually DID say, and that resolved the issue. In the case of a teaching or classroom setting, it's just my word what I actually said.


                    The only time I've actually hard that seriously discussed is in reference to Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

                    I think this article by John Piper - To the Jew First, and Also to the Greek - does a good job of handling this.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                      As far as I can tell those are mutually exclusive positions.
                      Ok. I'm not going to dig around to see if I still have his book here.

                      I know he favored a government of constitutional monarchy with laws closely derived from Scripture. (He was sure the U.S. was soon to crap the bed, and was trying to train leaders to be ready to quickly form a "shadow government.")

                      I know he believed that the Church didn't start until Paul (Hyper-Dispy), and was essentially "Plan B" (Open Theism).
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        Ok. I'm not going to dig around to see if I still have his book here.

                        I know he favored a government of constitutional monarchy with laws closely derived from Scripture. (He was sure the U.S. was soon to crap the bed, and was trying to train leaders to be ready to quickly form a "shadow government.")

                        I know he believed that the Church didn't start until Paul (Hyper-Dispy), and was essentially "Plan B" (Open Theism).
                        He was pretty much essential in causing Theologyweb to be created. I believe. The original owners belonged to Enyart's forum Theology Online and because of their differences with his dispensationalism and with the way his moderators micromanaged the forum, Boom, Cir and Dee Dee decided to start their own forum, Theologyweb.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          Ok. I'm not going to dig around to see if I still have his book here.

                          I know he favored a government of constitutional monarchy with laws closely derived from Scripture. (He was sure the U.S. was soon to crap the bed, and was trying to train leaders to be ready to quickly form a "shadow government.")

                          I know he believed that the Church didn't start until Paul (Hyper-Dispy), and was essentially "Plan B" (Open Theism).
                          I meant the underlined parts specifically. Hyperpreterism and hyper dispensationalism are opposite ends of the spectrum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            I meant the underlined parts specifically. Hyperpreterism and hyper dispensationalism are opposite ends of the spectrum.
                            And I realized his eschatology is the part I least remember.
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            Nationalist Christian.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                            Justice for Matthew Perna!

                            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              The first thing that caught my attention here was that you're getting this information second hand. Not that your mother isn't a good virtuous wonderful person, but she may have missed something in the overall context of the discussion.
                              I spoke to my mother tonight, and she assures me that it was pretty clear what was being said, but has promised to approach the teacher and make sure she hasn't misunderstood.
                              Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                              Comment

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