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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


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So Easy To Be An Atheist!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    The point needed making, because a surprising number of Christians (well, it surprised me) seems to think that if reverence for God is ignored, atheists could behave only in base ways. I think this idea is greatly mistaken.
    I hope you don't think I'm saying that RJ, because I'm not, that is not the point of this thread.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      I mean what is not to like, you get to make up your own moral code, live by it, then claim to be virtuous.
      Hmm, sort of like what christians do while pretending that their morals exist objectively.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Hmm, sort of like what christians do while pretending that their morals exist objectively.
        Nope, Christian moral principles have influenced cultures for two thousand years, what do you have Jim? And we don't pretend that the law of God exists, we really believe it, what does the atheist have Jim?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Nope, Christian moral principles have influenced cultures for two thousand years, what do you have Jim? And we don't pretend that the law of God exists, we really believe it, what does the atheist have Jim?
          Seer, you don't even know what those supposed objectively existing moral laws are, excepting for the few that are enumerated in the bible and even a few of those, like thou shalt not covet thy neighbors whatever, are ridiculous. And what we athiests have is the same thing you have, except that we understand where they come from, i.e. human reason, and why.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Seer, you don't even know what those supposed objectively existing moral laws are, excepting for the few that are enumerated in the bible and even a few of those, like thou shalt not covet thy neighbors whatever, are ridiculous. And what we athiests have is the same thing you have, except that we understand where they come from, i.e. human reason, and why.
            Jim I have no idea what you mean, who is the "we atheists?" Maoists? Stalinists? Pol Pot? Castro? Mengistu Mariam, Lenin? You - who grew up in a largely Christian culture? And what do you mean that you understand where they came from? That your moral sense is the accidental by product of the evolutionary process? And either deal with my points in the OP or do not post here. I'm tried of being derailed...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seer
              Jim I have no idea what you mean, who is the "we atheists?" Maoists? Stalinists? Pol Pot? Castro? Mengistu Mariam, Lenin? You - who grew up in a largely Christian culture? And what do you mean that you understand where they came from? That your moral sense is the accidental by product of the evolutionary process?
              "We" means those of us on the other side of the morality argument seer. And no, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that we, the human community, derive moral laws through experience by reason and logic by recognizing that they are in our best interests as a people living in community. You can stop with the tyrant nonsense now.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                "We" means those of us on the other side of the morality argument seer. And no, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that we, the human community, derive moral laws through experience by reason and logic by recognizing that they are in our best interests as a people living in community. You can stop with the tyrant nonsense now.
                No Jim, because what you think is in the best interest of society is not what the Communist thinks or the Muslim or the Christian. And please stop posting in my thread if you are not going to stay on topic.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  I mean what is not to like, you get to make up your own moral code, live by it, then claim to be virtuous.
                  Moral norms are set mostly by custom and tradition. But they do evolve gradually. It is nothing for you to be alarmed about. Atheists are subject to the same traditions as everyone else.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    Moral norms are set mostly by custom and tradition. But they do evolve gradually. It is nothing for you to be alarmed about. Atheists are subject to the same traditions as everyone else.
                    I'm not alarmed, are you all really not getting the point?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Well if one is a Christian a number of things follow if we disobey God. One is true guilt and sorrow for disappointing our heavenly Father, second the possibility of chastisement. In any case the believer is not at liberty to lessen the demands of God's law.
                      The point is a moral objectivist can choose which religion to follow1) - and with that which moral system. So there's no real difference with the subjectivist's position you have described; both the subjectivist and the objectivist are free to choose the moral system they wish to adhere to - or change that choice.


                      1) Or no religion at all - moral objectivism and atheism are not mutually exclusive.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by crepuscule View Post
                        The point is a moral objectivist can choose which religion to follow1) - and with that which moral system. So there's no real difference with the subjectivist's position you have described; both the subjectivist and the objectivist are free to choose the moral system they wish to adhere to - or change that choice.


                        1) Or no religion at all - moral objectivism and atheism are not mutually exclusive.
                        Except I am comparing these to the law of God, which can not be changed or evaded no matter what the individual does or doesn't do. In principle neither moral objectivism or moral relativism have inherent moral authority. No so with the law of God.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          But there are no actual demands in utilitarianism because utilitarianism has no inherent moral authority - take it or leave it, it is all the same in the end. Where the law of God is universal, exacting and the ruling authority over all mankind.
                          And authority is what it all comes down to for you, because you're a fascist authoritarian who holds a "might makes right" view of morality that has been mocked for thousands of years, but you make a continued fool of yourself on this forum parading it around constantly. Disgusting.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by crepuscule View Post
                            The point is a moral objectivist can choose which religion to follow1) - and with that which moral system. So there's no real difference with the subjectivist's position you have described; both the subjectivist and the objectivist are free to choose the moral system they wish to adhere to - or change that choice.


                            1) Or no religion at all - moral objectivism and atheism are not mutually exclusive.
                            Interesting how god's moral laws seem to coincide with the social prejudices of the day.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              I'm not alarmed, are you all really not getting the point?
                              You have no point. Your OP is merely a sneering misrepresentation of atheist morality.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Except I am comparing these to the law of God, which can not be changed or evaded no matter what the individual does or doesn't do. In principle neither moral objectivism or moral relativism have inherent moral authority. No so with the law of God.
                                An objective law (such as your God’s moral law) can not change, true; what can change is your interpretation of that law.

                                For example: if a train moves at 60 km/h and a person walks forward in that train’s aisle with 5 km/h, then the speed of that person (relative to an outside observer) was once thought to be objectively 65 km/h; simply the sum of those speeds. But since Einstein we now calculate that speed to be objectively slightly less than 65 km/h. Neither the objective speed nor the objective law describing said speed has changed: it’s our interpretation/formulation of that law that has.

                                So a moral objectivist may think today a given act is morally wrong, but s/he could be of a different opinion tomorrow, even though on both days s/he believes the moral judgment of that act to be objectively true.

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