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On the Etiquette of dying

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  • #16
    My oldest sister passed away from cancer some years ago, and wrote her own obituary, which ended up going semi-viral. I'm not going to post it here, but I'd be happy to PM a link to it if anyone is interested in reading.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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    • #17
      Someone very close to me was diagnosed with cancer this past December, so a lot of what you wrote speaks to me about how to deal with the patient. I keep asking myself, which is worse: Being the one with cancer, or loving the one with cancer? Frankly, I think both suck, but that's just my naturally cynical outlook. I know she will be healed eventually because God will give us perfect bodies in heaven, but it doesn't stop me from asking Him to heal her now instead of later. I also recognize that this is largely my selfishness talking because I hate the idea of living the rest of my life without her. I was praying about it in church one day, and my pastor randomly quoted the verse where God says, "My grace is sufficient for you." My reaction was, "Yes, I know, but I don't like that answer." Of course it doesn't matter if I like it or not because it's the truth, and I am obligated to accept it.

      Obviously I'm still working through a lot things mentally and emotionally, but I do feel a peace about it even though the future is unknown and things could go very bad very quickly. This is probably the first time in my life that I really understand what is meant by "the peace that passes understanding".
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Someone very close to me was diagnosed with cancer this past December, so a lot of what you wrote speaks to me about how to deal with the patient. I keep asking myself, which is worse: Being the one with cancer, or loving the one with cancer? Frankly, I think both suck, but that's just my naturally cynical outlook. I know she will be healed eventually because God will give us perfect bodies in heaven, but it doesn't stop me from asking Him to heal her now instead of later. I also recognize that this is largely my selfishness talking because I hate the idea of living the rest of my life without her. I was praying about it in church one day, and my pastor randomly quoted the verse where God says, "My grace is sufficient for you." My reaction was, "Yes, I know, but I don't like that answer." Of course it doesn't matter if I like it or not because it's the truth, and I am obligated to accept it.

        Obviously I'm still working through a lot things mentally and emotionally, but I do feel a peace about it even though the future is unknown and things could go very bad very quickly. This is probably the first time in my life that I really understand what is meant by "the peace that passes understanding".


        I went through this with my mom and dad. To me the worst part of cancer is the suffering it puts people through on all sides, the patient and the family, the disease AND the treatment.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post


          I went through this with my mom and dad. To me the worst part of cancer is the suffering it puts people through on all sides, the patient and the family, the disease AND the treatment.
          Simply put "Cancer Sucks."


          I was actually given a T-shirt that says that from a nurse when I was taking care of my mother as she was dying from it back in 2012

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Simply put "Cancer Sucks."
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by grmorton View Post
              Thanks rogue. I just wish I could have the energy I had just 2 years ago. I am fatiqued all the time and can't do hardly anything I used to do for very long. I tell my friends I have gone in 3 years from a guy working 13 hour days to one who has half a day worth of energy.
              I can sympathize with that. Even though it has only been a few months I am quite weak, and am not able to do much.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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              • #22
                If there is an afterlife, it does not matter that a person believes in it while he lives or not. It is cruel to tell people otherwise. But, if the thought of it is comforting then take comfort. Even an atheist might do that.

                It is true that nothing is permanent, but most things are more permanent than we are, including our own genes. We help to transport them across the ages and hope that they might be at least a little grateful but I doubt that they care. No history book will record the day when life on earth is extinguished forever.

                “A number of new-age religious or philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, notably "consciousness causes collapse", give the observer a special role or places constraints on who or what can be an observer. There is no credible peer-reviewed research that backs such claims.”
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  If there is an afterlife, it does not matter that a person believes in it while he lives or not. It is cruel to tell people otherwise.
                  Christianity is about a heck of a lot more than simply believing in the "afterlife". Of course I wouldn't expect you to understand that.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    If there is an afterlife, it does not matter that a person believes in it while he lives or not. It is cruel to tell people otherwise. But, if the thought of it is comforting then take comfort. Even an atheist might do that.

                    It is true that nothing is permanent, but most things are more permanent than we are, including our own genes. We help to transport them across the ages and hope that they might be at least a little grateful but I doubt that they care. No history book will record the day when life on earth is extinguished forever.

                    “A number of new-age religious or philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, notably "consciousness causes collapse", give the observer a special role or places constraints on who or what can be an observer. There is no credible peer-reviewed research that backs such claims.”
                    What a bunch of hog wash.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Someone very close to me was diagnosed with cancer this past December, so a lot of what you wrote speaks to me about how to deal with the patient. I keep asking myself, which is worse: Being the one with cancer, or loving the one with cancer? Frankly, I think both suck, but that's just my naturally cynical outlook. I know she will be healed eventually because God will give us perfect bodies in heaven, but it doesn't stop me from asking Him to heal her now instead of later. I also recognize that this is largely my selfishness talking because I hate the idea of living the rest of my life without her. I was praying about it in church one day, and my pastor randomly quoted the verse where God says, "My grace is sufficient for you." My reaction was, "Yes, I know, but I don't like that answer." Of course it doesn't matter if I like it or not because it's the truth, and I am obligated to accept it.

                      Obviously I'm still working through a lot things mentally and emotionally, but I do feel a peace about it even though the future is unknown and things could go very bad very quickly. This is probably the first time in my life that I really understand what is meant by "the peace that passes understanding".
                      Mountain, sometimes I think this is harder on my wife than it is on me. She is getting some of her hopes for retirement dashed, and has to deal with me in a way she doesn't want to. So, I feel for you. being the caregiver is a tougher job than being the patient

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                        Not to diminish your sorrow, but I just wanted to say that having been able to work 13 hour days for a significant part of your career is very impressive. Half of that would still be considered a full time job.

                        I'm sorry to hear of the cancer grmorton. I hope the best for you, no matter the prognosis. Prayers.
                        Thanks Leonhard for the kind words. Prior to my retirement as Exploration Director for China, I was working 18 hour days--my wife was over here and as I got off work, the US office came in and wanted updates all evening, so 13 hour days was a breeze. lol

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I've written elsewhere about my Pastor, under whom I surrendered to the ministry nearly 50 years ago. Over the last several years, he was declining in health pretty quickly because of cancer.

                          When I first started out in the ministry, I remember 'getting in trouble' in Church (doing something stupid as a young youth minister) and calling my Pastor, crying on his shoulder, and seeking his advice. One day, about 20 years into my ministry, my wife asked "when was the last time you called Pastor Robby?" It dawned on me that I hadn't called him in a long time, and it hit me that I only called him when I was "in trouble" or needed advice.

                          So I began a practice of calling occasionally when things "were good" just to catch up, and tell him I appreciated him. I would make sure, if he was anywhere near, to go see him at least every other year just to spend some time with him.

                          The last 6 months, it was obvious he was nearing end of life, and had rejected chemo and radiation and such because it only made him feel like crap. (crappier?) I started visiting him at least once a month - he lives in Tyler, so it's about a 7 hour round trip, but well worth it. The last time I visited him, he seemed to "rally", and we had a really great conversation, doing the "memory lane" thing and laughing about this and that. I went home that last time, thinking what a great visit that was, and wondering how many more I'd be able to share with him. That very night, he fell and hit his head, and, for the most part, became comatose. He passed a few days later in his sleep.

                          We all say it, Glenn, but unfortunately, many of us never take it seriously. Time is so precious, and we never know how much we have. I know I only "knew" you in real life for that couple of days, but I enjoyed meeting you, and appreciate the kind of character you are and convictions you hold.

                          Your attitude toward passing is so much like my Pastor, who knew where he was going, and was such an inspiration to me and my family.

                          You are appreciated, sir.
                          Cowpoke, you honor me and humble me with that post. I really did enjoy having you at the ranch during one of my philosophy weekend. I had to sell the ranch 2 years ago cause it was clear that soon I wasn't going to be able to take care of it and I really miss it. If I still owned it, taking care of it would put me in my grave quicker. lol


                          I told my son, a preacher like you, that what I left out of my OP was that the patient knows who is praying for them and who cares. Those people are the ones who check in from time to time to see how you are. Most people who say they are praying never check in ever.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            I can sympathize with that. Even though it has only been a few months I am quite weak, and am not able to do much.
                            Jedidiah, cancer is a real obscenity. One thing I have noticed is that in some sense, all these physical issues move us towards a mental state where we are ready to go. I am not quite there yet, but I can see it on the horizon. Much like the pains of birth

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by grmorton View Post
                              Cowpoke, you honor me and humble me with that post. I really did enjoy having you at the ranch during one of my philosophy weekend. I had to sell the ranch 2 years ago cause it was clear that soon I wasn't going to be able to take care of it and I really miss it. If I still owned it, taking care of it would put me in my grave quicker. lol


                              I told my son, a preacher like you, that what I left out of my OP was that the patient knows who is praying for them and who cares. Those people are the ones who check in from time to time to see how you are. Most people who say they are praying never check in ever.
                              I learned some time ago, when you tell somebody you're going to pray for them, do it right then.

                              (this works better in person)

                              A) they know you prayed for them because they heard it
                              2) you're more likely to remember to pray for them in the future, because you actually took the time to do it when asked (or offered)
                              C) if they weren't serious when they asked you to pray for them, they won't waste your time in the future because they know you'll actually pray for them right there on the spot.

                              I have a Pastor friend in town who is in 'end of life' - he has some kind of complicated cousin of Lou Gherig's disease, and is losing mobility, but his mind is still sharp. Eventually, it is anticipated he will no longer have the upper body strength to breathe. It breaks my heart, because he has been such a vibrant and active Pastor, and now he's in a motorized wheel chair.

                              Every couple weeks, I round up a couple other pastors, and we take fajitas to his house, and get him to tell his stories. He's a PhD, is published, and is quite an interesting fellow.

                              My youngest daughter is a hospice nurse - has been for about 7 years now - and she just has a real heart for ministering to people in that situation. She has a green light from her boss at Hospice to minister in Jesus' name as she sees fit.

                              You're on our prayer list at Church, Glenn... and if you're up to me bringing you fajitas, PM me!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                If there is an afterlife, it does not matter that a person believes in it while he lives or not. It is cruel to tell people otherwise. But, if the thought of it is comforting then take comfort. Even an atheist might do that.

                                It is true that nothing is permanent, but most things are more permanent than we are, including our own genes. We help to transport them across the ages and hope that they might be at least a little grateful but I doubt that they care. No history book will record the day when life on earth is extinguished forever.

                                “A number of new-age religious or philosophical interpretations of quantum mechanics, notably "consciousness causes collapse", give the observer a special role or places constraints on who or what can be an observer. There is no credible peer-reviewed research that backs such claims.”
                                You're not helping here, FF.... how bout backing out, please?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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