Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Book Plunge: Making A Meal Of It

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Book Plunge: Making A Meal Of It

    Ready to come to the table?

    Link.

    -----

    What do I think of Ben Witherington III's book published by Baylor University Press? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    My wife has been exploring Orthodoxy later. I find it interesting that yesterday many of us line up so that people can have a small piece of bread and drink from one cup. My wife and I not being part of the Orthodox Church are not allowed to partake, but we get a blessing. After all of that, we go over to a life center and there's a meal there where people can get what they want and we can all sit at tables and chat with one another.

    It's ironic to think that the latter practice could be closer to the Lord's Supper than the former is.

    Witherington's book is meant to give us a theology of the Lord's Supper. I was quite intrigued to start this book since so many Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox debates can take place around this. I have to agree with my wife's assessment as we discussed it beforehand that what we usually get at churches should be more accurately called "The Lord's Snack."

    Witherington starts with Passover. Is this a parallel to the Lord's Supper? Not really. Passover looked back to the past. The Lord's Supper is meant more to look to the future. Still, we can get a lot out of learning about how Jews observed meals and how that could differ from the way the Greeks did it.

    In the middle, you get an interesting look at John where Witherington explains his reasons for thinking Lazarus is the beloved disciple. The more I see this case, the more I think Witherington could be on to something. The historians among us will be interested in this as well.

    Witherington will go on to talk about the text as it is found in 1 Cor. 11 and in the Gospels and various places in the book of Acts. It's interesting that this is such an important feature to churches, but really very little is said about it. What is tragic the most is what has happened to the event over time.

    As we move away from the idea of house churches and we establish public places for people to go to, the meal becomes less of a meal. It becomes more individualized with personal wafers and in our day, personal cups. It is not the host, the head of the household, who presides over the meal, but rather it is a priest or a minister. Of course, anyone who does preside over this event should be aware of how it needs to be done respectfully, but is there a problem with making it the responsibility of the clergy?

    The table has also been a place of exclusion many times. Let's remember that our Lord ate and drank with prostitutes and tax collectors. At the Last Supper itself, Judas was present and Jesus gave him bread specifically. Of course, the church wanted to make sure that people did not come to their feasts to disrupt them, but could the feasts themselves not be an evangelistic opportunity?

    Witherington at the end talks about being on tours in other countries where the Lord's Supper was done. One person who gave a tour was a Muslim who was apparently questioning. The other was a lapsed Catholic. Witherington talks about how he invited both of them to the table to partake of the elements. Conversion took place.

    Ultimately, my view of the Lord's Supper right now is that the meal is largely symbolic, but meant to draw us into the presence of Christ. Jesus is the real host at every event. As the bread is broken, we are to remember that the body of Jesus was broken. As the wine flows, we are to remember how the blood of Jesus was poured out on the cross.

    All of this is meant to draw us into the presence of Jesus. Yet at the same time, we don't have this like a funeral dirge, but we have it as a celebration. We remember that this was not the end. He is coming back and we look forward to when He reigns again in the future totally when the Father rules on Earth as He does in Heaven.

    The meal after the Lord's Supper could ironically be closer to the Lord's Supper since it is actually a meal and it is actually us communing together and meeting one another. After all, when the supper was had at Corinth, people were gorging themselves and getting drunk. Hard to think of an individual doing that on what's given out on many a Sunday morning.

    If there was any change I would make to the book, I would like more footnotes when later historical events are talked about. I would like to know where I can find these events in church historians. For instance, I know Witherington shares the story about Origen castrating himself, but I am skeptical of this event being a real one instead of just a legend about Origen.

    Still, this book really makes one appreciate the Lord's Supper and it's hard to not be moved at the last chapter with the stories of conversion taking place. Those wishing to understand the doctrine of the meal are advised to read Witherington's book. He's a top-notch scholar that has again brought us great information and it's easy to understand.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    Slightly off-topic: I'd like to know when he finds time to sleep. He obviously does tons of research. He spits out books like a Pez dispenser. He travels the world. He blogs and interacts in the Comments. He does videos. He enjoys pop culture and comments on it.

    If I go to the Post Office and the grocery store in the same day, I need an extra nap!
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

    Comment


    • #3
      I have been part of a church body who did on occasion celebrate communion as part of a meal. It was a positive experience.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #4
        Hrm. I'd say that both Passover and the Lord's Supper primarily look to the past (when first instituted, both looked to the future). Passover as currently practiced also looks to the future in that a seat is saved for Elijah.

        The Lord's Supper WAS originally done in the midst of a meal; it was probably out of piety that the early church developed the practice of fasting beforehand, which precluded the possibility of overindulging. In Russian practice, there is additional bread and (watered) wine which can be consumed after receiving communion.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment

        Related Threads

        Collapse

        Topics Statistics Last Post
        Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
        14 responses
        75 views
        1 like
        Last Post rogue06
        by rogue06
         
        Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
        6 responses
        61 views
        0 likes
        Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
        Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
        1 response
        23 views
        0 likes
        Last Post rogue06
        by rogue06
         
        Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
        0 responses
        22 views
        2 likes
        Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
        Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
        7 responses
        61 views
        0 likes
        Last Post whag
        by whag
         
        Working...
        X