The Taliban Destroy Another Statue!

[Sparko]

Yep. Worth bearing in mind the nature of those times.

Here's the KKK rally in Washington D.C. in 1925 in which 30,000+ clanspeople marched to cheering crowds...




How dare anyone regard them with disgust or want to tear down their statues! Those good ole days when America was great!

I can't tell if you and tassman actually believe your drivel or are just trolling to get a reaction.

[Starlight]

I can't tell if you and tassman actually believe your drivel or are just trolling to get a reaction.

We're serious. I think you're really ignorant as to the extent of open racism in the history of your own country. Have a careful read of the speech at the statue's dedication that Leonhard linked to, and have a read of the article about the KKK rally that I linked to.

[One Bad Pig]

I completely disagree, this was, at bottom, a war memorial for fallen soldiers. And if we started taking down statues with any link to racism, most statues of our founders and many presidents would have to go - that was the nature of things back then. A thousand members of this university fought in the American Civil War, this monument is exactly where it should be, never mind the fact that these leftists had no legal right to do what they did - they should be prosecuted.

I think much of the angst over statues is overblown, but this particular one appears to have been built to celebrate racism and was dedicated by a Klansman. Racism was pretty mainstream back then, with progressive hero Woodrow Wilson resegregating the military (setting race relations back 30 years there).

[Sparko]

We're serious. I think you're really ignorant as to the extent of open racism in the history of your own country. Have a careful read of the speech at the statue's dedication that Leonhard linked to, and have a read of the article about the KKK rally that I linked to.

I am referring to you claiming that the Civil War was only about slavery. Not to mention your trying to claim that the USA is a country of hateful bigots while trying to pretend your country and Tassman's are all squeaky clean.

[Starlight]

I am referring to you claiming that the Civil War was only about slavery.

I am sorry for you that your understanding of your own country's history is so poor.

Not to mention your trying to claim that the USA is a country of hateful bigots while trying to pretend your country and Tassman's are all squeaky clean.

I would comparatively describe Australia's history of bigotry as "atrocious, but as approximately an order of magnitude better than the US" and New Zealand's as "varied from bad to good, but approximately an order of magnitude or even two orders of magnitude better than Australia".

In the modern day, the average New Zealander travelling to Australia finds them to be quite openly racist by comparison to NZ, and the average New Zealander travelling to the US typically finds it absolutely horrifying how they treat minorities there. You don't seem to understand that your country is legit absolutely awful on these issues and doesn't compare well to other countries. That's not a claim that any country is perfect or squeaky clean, just a claim that the US is really, really, really, bad on these issues.

[Leonhard]

Considering that most statues commemorating people are usually not built until several years after their passing it is not a surprise that they would be built during the Jim Crow era which started at the end of the Reconstruction era (which ended in 1877). Further, in many cases, thanks to both the cost of the war and the debt of reconstruction nobody had the money to afford erecting a statue until later.

I would find this more credible if there was only one spike of statues being made. That it then correlation with a civil rights event could just be an accident. But it aligns again and again with many such events.

[rogue06]

I would find this more credible if there was only one spike of statues being made. That it then correlation with a civil rights event could just be an accident. But it aligns again and again with many such events.

By far and away the biggest and longest spike corresponds to what I said, it was when the former soldiers were dying at a rapid rate and when Southern states were finally wealthy enough to afford building monuments to them. The formation of the NAACP had little if nothing to do with it since that took place pretty near the middle of the spike.

[One Bad Pig]

I am sorry for you that your understanding of your own country's history is so poor.

I would comparatively describe Australia's history of bigotry as "atrocious, but as approximately an order of magnitude better than the US" and New Zealand's as "varied from bad to good, but approximately an order of magnitude or even two orders of magnitude better than Australia".

In the modern day, the average New Zealander travelling to Australia finds them to be quite openly racist by comparison to NZ, and the average New Zealander travelling to the US typically finds it absolutely horrifying how they treat minorities there. You don't seem to understand that your country is legit absolutely awful on these issues and doesn't compare well to other countries. That's not a claim that any country is perfect or squeaky clean, just a claim that the US is really, really, really, bad on these issues.

Do you have anything at all to back up this really, really, really, really, really horrifying stuff? The US is, like, a really big place, dude. We're hardly monolithic on anything. While there are racists here, they're a tiny minority. I don't treat anybody differently based on the color of their skin, don't have any friends who do, and my workplace prides itself on their diversity awards.

[Leonhard]

By far and away the biggest and longest spike corresponds to what I said, it was when the former soldiers were dying at a rapid rate and when Southern states were finally wealthy enough to afford building monuments to them. The formation of the NAACP had little if nothing to do with it since that took place pretty near the middle of the spike.

You should be looking at Plessy v. Ferguson. Which reinstated racial segregation in the South. It seems a lot of Southerners around that time felt like dedicating statues to the "Golden Age" and its also where we see most of the "Lost Cause" mythology developing. But again, just look at the groups who put up the statues and find out why they did it. With Silent Sam its pretty clear as day that it was put up and who supported it.

To completely ignore the motivation of racism in this is I think to turn a blind eye to history. Almost every single year leading up to the NAACP and for years after, there was a large riot of white people murdering black people, hundred of black people in each riot.

As I've said before I don't think statues like this should be destroyed, even if they're put up for bad reasons like that. I do believe a discussion can be had about whether they should be given pride of place. And personally, if I had a choice, I believe a statue like that should be placed in a museum where it can be put into context about why it was put there, how came to be and what it represents.

I especially believe that the black community, given that the South fought hard to keep men like them enslaved, and then later to keep them segregated, have a say in whether statues like that deserve pride of place.

[stfoskey15]

Do you have anything at all to back up this really, really, really, really, really horrifying stuff? The US is, like, a really big place, dude. We're hardly monolithic on anything. While there are racists here, they're a tiny minority. I don't treat anybody differently based on the color of their skin, don't have any friends who do, and my workplace prides itself on their diversity awards.

If I'd have to guess, I'd say outright racists make up about 5-10% of the population, but it's hard to tell. I think a lot of racial issues have to do with implicit bias, which is a much trickier problem to deal with (and doesn't just apply to race).